Very Early GEM Horn question

[Ripduf1]

Hi and Happy Thanksgiving.

I am currently working on a few horns for a client and this early GEM horn is one of them. I assume it is for GEM however when I mount it on a Model C reproducer the narrow end is loose fitting. Did early Edisons have larger "necks" or a step at the base of the neck? This small horn measures 9.5" long x 4" bell diameter. Is it for some other make of phonograph?

The narrow end of this horn is solid and the seam is not open at all so it doesnt look like it is stretched/damaged. Any help/knowledge will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. John Duffy

[phonogfp]

John,

I have my doubts that this is a Gem horn. I've never seen any illustrations of this horn, nor a photo of one of these "in the flesh" before. I'm especially doubtful about this being for the early Gem, as the nice bell would have involved additional expense, and at $7.50 ($10.00 after May 5, 1900), there was little profit margin for Edison as it was.

George P.

[Ripduf1]

That is interesting.

Does anyone recognize what machine this horn might go to? It is approx 3/32nds larger that a C reproducer neck. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

John

[Yamaphone]

I thought I remembered seeing this horn on an Edison Gem somewhere. I just checked the "A guide to the Edison cylinder Phonograph" by George L. Frow. This is an early edition (1970) of the book, published in England that I think I bought at the Edison site in N.J. in the early 1970's.
Anyway, on page 37 there is plate 30 which is an illustration of a Model A Gem with just such a horn. Since the book was published in England, maybe the horn was something available there. I hope this helps.


Dan Zalewski (Yamaphone)

[GeorgeDixon]

I thought I remembered seeing this horn on an Edison Gem somewhere. I just checked the "A guide to the Edison cylinder Phonograph" by George L. Frow. This is an early edition (1970) of the book, published in England that I think I bought at the Edison site in N.J. in the early 1970's.
Anyway, on page 37 there is plate 30 which is an illustration of a Model A Gem with just such a horn. Since the book was published in England, maybe the horn was something available there. I hope this helps.


Dan Zalewski (Yamaphone)

I am following this string as a curious observer. Dan, is there any chance you could post a scan or photocopy of the plate? Maybe someone else has a copy of this early edition?

[gramophone78]

The December 1899 issue (inside back cover) shows a horn similar. However, examples known are all black. This horn is also shown in George & Tim's book Antique Phonograph "Accessories & Contraptions" page 12-13.

Phonoscope Dec. 1899.jpg (197.76 KiB) Viewed 1392 times

[phonogfp]

I guess I should have been more explicit above when I cited the "nice bell." A nice nickeled bell is unknown on a Gem as original equipment. The well-known cut of the $7.50 Gem shown above (and in the earliest Frow book) does not show a nickeled bell (to my eye at least).

Additionally, the shaped orifice for connection to the reproducer suggests a later horn.

I'm stumped.

George P.

[zapper]

Hi
Here is a copy of the Gem in George Frows book of 1970. Looks similar to that posted above. Interestingly I bought this book in 1975 from Musical Americana Talking Machine Co. for $5.50 + $1 shipping.
Brian

[Andersun]

Hi
Here is a copy of the Gem in George Frows book of 1970. Looks similar to that posted above. Interestingly I bought this book in 1975 from Musical Americana Talking Machine Co. for $5.50 + $1 shipping.
Brian

I saw one of these at Union several years ago. It's neck fit snug on the reproducer and it was all metal, not brass belled. I would have picked it up but the seller wanted 2K for it. It's longer and narrower than the brass belled one in question.

My guess is that the brass belled one is either foreign or for another application like a child's phonograph. I have a oil can type horn that also has a larger neck. I believe it is from a child's phonograph of a later time period.

[phonogfp]

Yes, it looks similar, but not the same. Notice the shaped small end (a Tea Tray Company patent granted in 1905).

Here are the pages from Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions cited above, showing two similar horns. Click each image twice to enlarge it.

From "Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions" by Fabrizio & Paul. All Rights Reserved.

From "Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions" by Fabrizio & Paul. All Rights Reserved.

These horns don't show up with the frequency we would expect if they had been original equipment Gem horns. Yes, that early cut shows a 2-piece horn, but such mistakes occurred occasionally in Edison literature. Just turn the page on Frow's earliest book shown above (to page 38) and you'll see a cut showing a 7-panel Gem horn that is not known to have ever existed.

George P.