Pathé records won't advance, they repeat

[apruizii]

I tried playing a couple of Pathé records on my Brunswick console phonograph (1923 York model) with a supposedly new sapphire ball tip needle that I recently purchased from the Netherlands. The records don't advance no matter where I place the needle on the records. It just repeats. I'm using a Brunswick 2 way Ultona reproducer that plays both, lateral and vertical cut records with metal and sapphire tip needles, respectively. I have the weight on the tone arm all the way forward as indicated in the Ultona operating instructions. The phonograph plays the lateral cut records beautifully. What could be the problem? Does the needle need to be cleaned/prepped in any way in order for it to play the first time it's used? Thanks!!

[phonogal]

Make sure the machine is completely level side to side and front to back. The Pathé records have very shallow grooves and this will happen if the machine isn't level. Not sure if the reproducer head on the two way Ultona works the same as on the three way but on the three way the reproducer also needs to be rotated into position to play the Pathés. Hope this helps. Jan

[apruizii]

Jan, the phonograph is completely level and I have the reproducer rotated to the correct position for playing Pathé records with the sapphire needle. Thanks anyway!

[phonogal]

Jan, the phonograph is completely level and I have the reproducer rotated to the correct position for playing Pathé records with the sapphire needle. Thanks anyway!

I don't know what else could be the problem. I'm assuming the Pathé records you are trying to play are not the later lateral cut ones. Hopefully someone else will be able to shed some light on the problem.

[TinfoilPhono]

Some Pathé records are center-start. If you're trying to play one of those as if it were a normal record it would keep bouncing back.

Just a thought.

[apruizii]

TinfoilPhono, the discs start from the outer edge and are vertically cut...they are the type with the red rooster. Thanks... Hopefully somebody else has an idea.

[gramophone78]

I would recommend posting some pics or even a short video for others to provide you with good feedback on this issue... .

[VintageTechnologies]

I have two Brunswicks with the 3-way Ultona head, and many hundreds of Pathé vertical-cut disks, both edge start and center start. There are a number of factors that will affect whether the head will track without skipping or sliding across the record:

- Mass of the heavy reproducer head and tonearm
- Orientation (telescoping and rotation) of the head
- Positioning of the sliding weight
- Levelling of the cabinet
- Uneven resistance of the tonearm when swung through an arc
- Stylus wear
- Record wear
- Record diameter (small records skip worse)
- Record volume
- Shallowness of groove cut varies
- Eccentricity (off-center) of grooves
- Record warp
- Turntable wobble
- Phases of the moon (just kidding!!!)

I think the heavy mass of the Ultona head is much to blame for tracking errors. I have much better results playing problematic records on an actual Pathé machine with a lighter head. I have come to accept that some records simply won't play on the Brunswick. I play the most problematic records on an Edison DD with adapter to get some benefit of tangent tracking - except that is something that won't work with center-start records.

[apruizii]

Gramophone78,
That's a great idea. I've included some pictures of the sapphire ball tipped needle and a short video clip of the problem I'm having relating to the Pathé record not advancing, just repeating.

[gramophone78]

I've never owned a Brunswick. However, I think the stylus should be positioned straight on and not on an angle.
Like this....