Triumph A or B question

[bruv]

What is the easiest way to tell between an a or b triumph. Here is a picture of it. Looks green oak to me. It doesn't have a lid and the guy plays blue records on it. That is all I know so far. So, if it is nice like the picture shows, is it worth $399 with out lid? The way he described it, it sounds as nice as it looks in the picture. I don't have a triumph, so what would you do?

Dave

[Jerry B.]

Looks like a Model A Triumph to me and it's been converted to play both two and four minute cylinders. It probably has a slotted crank. It would be nice to have the lid but when visiting most collectors, the lids are out of sight. I think it is worth $399 but you might make an offer first. I'd guess the horn is a reproduction. Jerry Blais

[FellowCollector]

So, if it is nice like the picture shows, is it worth $399 with out lid? The way he described it, it sounds as nice as it looks in the picture. I don't have a triumph, so what would you do?

This is an early model A Triumph with the "sharp" corners as opposed to the later Triumph A with rounded corners.

If I was offered this Triumph for $399 it would be home with me already. Triumphs are wonderful phonographs and this one appears to be a nice original according to the picture. The cabinet edge chip on the left front bottom is a shame but oh well...sometimes cabinet edges take a hit.

Not having a lid is not that big of a deal and the horn, even if it is reproduction, is not a big deal. The Triumph itself without the lid is still a very good deal at $399.

My advice is to get it before someone else who knows and appreciates the Triumph model finds out about it first.

The price is very fair based on the picture and presuming it works. Perhaps I'm a bit biased since I like Triumphs and I buy every one I can find that is in decent condition as this one appears to be.

And the easiest way to tell a Triumph model A versus Triumph model B is that if the cabinet has an original banner decal it will be a model A. All model B (and later) Triumphs had the simple "Edison" cabinet decal and the cabinet is dramatically different on the model B and later Triumph models.

Doug

[bruv]

Thank you for the info. The guy said he bought the horn to put on it, so it is a reproduction. Should it have a shaver on the back side of the reproducer? The guy was driving back home and couldn't remember.
Dave

[Lucius1958]

The Model A Phonographs (with the exception of the Gem, and of course the coin-ops) came with a shaver as standard equipment.

Bill

[bruv]

Here are a couple of other pictures I had him send me. It looks to be a 4 min reproducer. Looks in nice shape. I told him I would take it. It doesn't have the shaver, though. Is that a big deal? I don't use the one I have on a home, but probably would be nice for completeness sake.
Dave

[FellowCollector]

Now that I can see a few more close up pictures it is apparent that the bedplate pinstriping has been redone. But the good news is that this Triumph model A has indeed been fitted with a later style (without the dial switch) 2 and 4 minute conversion kit as Jerry mentioned earlier which is a real plus! It's a bit disappointing that the seller didn't send you the closeup pictures of the bedplate beforehand or that we could see them as well beforehand but I personally feel that you still did fine in spite of the replaced pinstriping and presuming it plays fine. The Triumph model A had an internal cabinet partition that has been removed on this one for some odd reason. A shaver assembly mounted on the carriage was indeed original equipment on this and it would have been a plus but I know of no one who has used these carriage mounted shavers with much success in shaving a cylinder adequately for recording. Using a separate shaving machine would be the preferred method. Ask the seller if he will throw in the cylinders he has with the deal to sweeten it a little for you. Most (non-collector) sellers will do that since they no longer have a need for them without the phonograph. You can always redo the pinstriping yourself down the road if you wanted as there are several suppliers of excellent Triumph pinstriping kits.

I have always admired the early recessed cabinet and banner decal on the Triumph model A over the more plain raised front cabinet Model B (and later Triumph models) with the 'Edison' decal. So again, I'm biased a bit with the Triumph models especially the model A. They're very hefty machines for sure so be prepared for that but once you have it in place they're wonderful to play and enjoy.

Doug

[bruv]

He is throwing in the horn and the 8 cylinders he has. He has no need for them. Thanks for the information.
Dave

[Lucius1958]

Here are a couple of other pictures I had him send me. It looks to be a 4 min reproducer. Looks in nice shape. I told him I would take it. It doesn't have the shaver, though. Is that a big deal? I don't use the one I have on a home, but probably would be nice for completeness sake.
Dave

The shaver used on the Triumph A is different in design from those used on the Home or Standard A: it may be rather harder to find...

As for Doug's comment, I know that the Standard and Home (the latter from my own experience) are far too under-powered for adequate shaving; but the Triumph motor may have enough power to do a decent job. A dedicated shaving machine may be best, but the Triumph is the best model for casual shaving at home...

Bill

[edisonphonoworks]

The machine in question was made previous to 1903, has the wonderful 2/4 minute conversion. Someone re did the striping to the bed plate, and the signature is wrong for the machine, should be a loop T instead of the pointed one. Cabinet looks nice. I remember when any Triumph that played was $1000.000+ I would buy that machine for the price, in a heartbeat. There is nothing that plays cylinders as nicely, or records them like a Triumph, all original Edison master cylinders were mastered on an Edison Triumph. The only better playing machines is the Amberola 1-A or the Opera.