Columbia machine ID needed

[Torjazzer]

Have a look at these pics. Those pillars look very Victor. Is this a Frankenphone?

[Jerry B.]

I've never seen a Columbia anything like it but it looks authentic. Maybe a late Columbia made for export or perhaps a machine made outside the US. I like it and it looks worth owning. Just my opinions. Jerry Blais

[phonogfp]

It doesn't look phoneyed up, but I've never seen a Grafonola decal on an external-horn machine.

Still, who would go to the expense of buying one of these decals (I think Gregg Cline is the only one offering these) when there are less-expensive alternatives?

This is one best seen in person. If it's legitimate, it's interesting.

George P.

[De Soto Frank]

Those do not look like American Columbia controls on the deck.

Reproducer looks like it might be Columbia Viva-Tonal, but it's hard to tell from the photos.

Regarding the decal, I don't have Mackey & Baumbach's book at hand, but I seem to remember something about later external horn machines being referred to as "external-horn Grafonolas"...


The cabinet does have a Victor look to it, with the fluted corner pilasters...

[phonogfp]

Baumbach and Mackey noted in the descriptions of the last two external horn Columbias that,

"This machine was referred to as a Grafonola in the contemporary literature even though it had an outside horn."

If this machine (which is NOT illustrated in the book) is legitimate, it's the first one I've seen actually marked that way. The horn and elbow don't look quite right, but if this is very late production, oddities are possible.

George P.

[Torjazzer]

Baumbach and Mackey noted in the descriptions of the last two external horn Columbias that,

"This machine was referred to as a Grafonola in the contemporary literature even though it had an outside horn."

If this machine (which is NOT illustrated in the book) is legitimate, it's the first one I've seen actually marked that way. The horn and elbow don't look quite right, but if this is very late production, oddities are possible.

George P.

I was thinking that the horn sits suspiciously high on the back bracket, as if the sleeve isn't long enough. Did Baumbach and Mackey mention a possible year of production?

[Torjazzer]

Those do not look like American Columbia controls on the deck.

Reproducer looks like it might be Columbia Viva-Tonal, but it's hard to tell from the photos.

Regarding the decal, I don't have Mackey & Baumbach's book at hand, but I seem to remember something about later external horn machines being referred to as "external-horn Grafonolas"...


The cabinet does have a Victor look to it, with the fluted corner pilasters...

Here's a better look at the deck. Something looks broken off the foreground corner. The speed control?

[Lucius1958]

Baumbach and Mackey noted in the descriptions of the last two external horn Columbias that,

"This machine was referred to as a Grafonola in the contemporary literature even though it had an outside horn."

If this machine (which is NOT illustrated in the book) is legitimate, it's the first one I've seen actually marked that way. The horn and elbow don't look quite right, but if this is very late production, oddities are possible.

George P.

I was thinking that the horn sits suspiciously high on the back bracket, as if the sleeve isn't long enough. Did Baumbach and Mackey mention a possible year of production?

The Baumbach & Lackey quote refers to the 25H and 60H models, which were introduced in 1915. The illustrations shown, however, depict them with the older "profile" decal, rather than the "Grafonola" decal: but things may have changed later in their production - or in foreign markets.

Bill

[De Soto Frank]

Those do not look like American Columbia controls on the deck.

Reproducer looks like it might be Columbia Viva-Tonal, but it's hard to tell from the photos.

Regarding the decal, I don't have Mackey & Baumbach's book at hand, but I seem to remember something about later external horn machines being referred to as "external-horn Grafonolas"...


The cabinet does have a Victor look to it, with the fluted corner pilasters...

Here's a better look at the deck. Something looks broken off the foreground corner. The speed control?

That tone-arm looks like a first-generation Columbia bayonet-mount, c. 1910-1912. I am pretty certain that is a Viva-Tonal reproducer.

I would agree that the little stub protruding from the escutcheon is probably a speed control... but Columbia seems to have used either piston-style combination brake / speed control protruding from the side of the cabinet, or levers for speed and brake on the top of the motorboard, usually at about "8 o'clock" when facing the machine.

[Jerry B.]

I received a phone call from our friend Harvey or "phono freak" and he said he didn't have a way to respond but he's anxious to contribute. He wanted me to relay his thoughts so I'll do my best. He believes the machine is a well made Frankenphone. He said the back bracket is a common Columbia bracket designed to hold the screw-in elbow with a ring or two half rings. He suggested the elbow is a well made adapter fabricated to be used on the earlier back bracket. He said many of the incidental parts like the speed control, brake, and crank escutcheon were used on Columbia portable machines. Harvey stated that the reproducer is a late reproducer that appears forced onto the tone arm. Also, he questioned the authenticity of the decal. (There it is Harvey. I did my best. Please feel free to make corrections and additions. Jerry)

Relayed from Harvey through Jerry Blais to you!