Shellac Record Press - Anyone Ever Seen One?

[billybob62]

Cylinder records are being made today by several people, a Diamond Disc may soon be forthcoming and I feel certain shellac 78s would be purchased by hobbyists if they can be played on the old machines.I don't think shellac is the sine qua non as a material.
Comments?

[Wolfe]

Just an observation: In the late 1930's and into the 1940's before the introduction of microgroove records, Victor (and maybe Columbia) were making delux Vinyl (transparent red for Victor) editions of records. So was Sears (maybe sourced from Victor). Of course this was after the introduction of jeweled styli on changers that had lightweight (relatively) tone arms with crystal cartridges.

These were made from the same stampers as the shellac editions. Were they made on the same presses? I probably think so, with adjustments to compensate for the differences in a vinyl "puck", as opposed to a shellac "puck".

Also the (nearly) micro groove 33 ⅓ Program Transcriptions of the early 1930's. And the standard groove wartime V-Discs, both shellac and a hard vinyl / plastic like construction. It could be assumed that when they switched from breakable shellac V-Discs to the vinyl kind that some of the same records (titles) wound up issued in both types ? I haven't personally seen that, though.

[Phototone]

So, theoretically, the shellac compound could be milled, mixed, rolled, and cut-into biscuits by a third party, then shipped to the pressing plant for final pressing ?

I believe the way the LP plants do it now starts with pellets of the appropriate plastic material ?


(The economic factor is still the elephant in the room...)

I can almost guarantee that is the way it was done for the small independent pressing plant. There must have been a vendor for shellac "pucks" ready to heat and use.

[De Soto Frank]

Cylinder records are being made today by several people, a Diamond Disc may soon be forthcoming and I feel certain shellac 78s would be purchased by hobbyists if they can be played on the old machines.I don't think shellac is the sine qua non as a material.
Comments?

As for material, I guess that depends on which machine is doing the play-back... if we're using an acoustic machine with a heavy sound-box and a steel needle, the substrate is going to have to be something tougher than LP vinyl...

If we're using a late-1930's - '40's electrical machine with a light-weight crystal or magnetic pick-up and a sapphire stylus, then there may be more options for disc material.

If someone wants to do the R&D for alternative disc materials, perhaps there is a better alternative to the pre-Depression Shellac compounds?

[tinovanderzwan]

The United Record pressing plant in Nashville, has one manually operated press, and It is for 7 and 10" records. All the rest are automatic presses. The shellac milling process would be the hardest part to work out. The formula for shellac 78s is around shellac, garnet stone, green stone, china clay. This all gets put in a steam heated mixer, and fully combined, then goes into several rollers and comes out in a sheet, that is cut into squares and then labels put on each side. The modern record presses, the steam and pressure are adjustable. I know that you can also make silicone molds of lacquers and pour resin epoxy material in them and make records that can be played on a talking machine.

shawn i would recomend to ad mica powder and lime dust to the resin when moulding a record
the problem with repro 78s is that yes the resin is hard yes you can play it on a acousic talking machine but the needle is still harder than the material and it will wear down after several playings but by adding a abrasive the needle will wear down first giving the recording a longer life
this was the basic system of the shellac record there where abrasives in the compound to wear the needle down take this gimic to a modern material and you'll be able to produce 78s that are playable on acoustic phono's that have a long life even after a moderate amount of abuse and they are cheap to produce
silicone moulds will produce single sided records only but.. who cares! i would like a record with skrillex bangerang on it so that the young folks can be introduced to phono's without them walking off because they don't like grandpa music
by the way ortophonic players and emg machines are able to play that!

tino

[Odeon]

Sorry guys to be again a pain in the neck…

As I said some posts before – yes, of course, a vinyl pressing machine is adjustable by the pressure. But NOT in that way needed for a shellac record! I wrote it before: To press a shellac record, you need over 10 times the pressure of a vinyl record. We (our German site) had once back a talk to a company in Germany still pressing vinyl records with machines from the early 1970s. Their answer: It is impossible to press a shellac record with this machines, because their lack the needed pressure.

I´m quite sure, this also counts for the pressing plant (with their machines) in Nashville, TN shown here some posts earlier. Fact: If you want to press a “real” shellac record, you´re in the need of an old pressing machine for 78rpm records…

To get back on topic: Garret, who opened this thread, asked about pictures of pressing machines for 78rpm, shellac records. I uploaded some pictures of the asked machines here – all from Europe. Ok – let me see, what looked the old machines for shellac records back in the US? Would really love to see here some authentic pictures of pressing plants and machines from over the Ocean.

Kind Regards

[howardpgh]

This Decca ad has a picture of a record press in it.

[Phototone]

Hydraulic ram presses are used every day to make parts. They can press steel into shapes for automobiles and such. It is not a lost art to make hydraulic ram presses to the pressures needed for shellac records. Whether currently in use presses for vinyl will provide the pressures needed is almost immaterial. It can be done, and probably adapted from another industry, just using the heated and cooled die plates needed for the product required, in this case shellac records. Particularly if one does not require automation.

[howardpgh]

Making records was originally adapted from another industry that pressed out buttons.

[Silvertone]

Ok – let me see, what looked the old machines for shellac records back in the US? Would really love to see here some authentic pictures of pressing plants and machines from over the Ocean.

Here is a picture from The Voice of The Victor.