C250/C19 Database project

[pathe]

Hello, Fran
Before you get done with this have you given any thought to including the CC-32 console as it is technically a (official Laboratory Model)Chippendale also.

Regards, Ken

[fran604g]

Hello fran604g:
Eventually are you going to post your spreadsheet for these machines so we all who submitted data for our machines can have reference to it?
Thanks
John

Hello, Fran
Before you get done with this have you given any thought to including the CC-32 console as it is technically a (official Laboratory Model)Chippendale also.

Regards, Ken

Hi guys,

I'm upgrading to a new PC today (finally!) so, at this time I won't be able to address your questions as thoughtfully as I'd like (I'm using my not-so-smart phone currently).

I should be completely back online tomorrow.

I don't want you to think I missed your quedtions, and both of these topics are things I've planned for in one way or another.

Thanks for your understanding,
Fran

[fran604g]

Hi guys,

I'm upgrading to a new PC today (finally!) so, at this time I won't be able to address your questions as thoughtfully as I'd like (I'm using my not-so-smart phone currently).

I should be completely back online tomorrow.

I don't want you to think I missed your quedtions, and both of these topics are things I've planned for in one way or another.

Thanks for your understanding,
Fran

As I promised yesterday:

Hello fran604g:
Eventually are you going to post your spreadsheet for these machines so we all who submitted data for our machines can have reference to it?
Thanks
John

When I'm finished with the final installment (Part IV) of my article series in The Antique Phonograph, I plan to submit my spreadsheet data in some easy to use form, to be posted on the APS website so that the collecting community can use it as a comprehensive guide in perpetuity.

My collected data file is much larger and comprehensive than the information contained in this post, with currently over 300 individual Chippendales across 18+ data points (though my work isn't nearly as large as Martinola's work in his Edison Standard Data). If you haven't yet read Martin's Spotter’s Guide to the Edison Standard Phonograph (here: http://www.antiquephono.org/spotters-gu ... honograph/) you owe it to yourself to check it out! His data file can be found at the very end of his article.

Much of my research is still ongoing, and the most difficult part -- my final interpretation of the actual production numbers -- probably won't be ready until late summer/early fall to coincide with the Part IV article installment; the longer the amount of time I have for this part of the project, the more accurate I should hope to be, obviously. Of course, in the meantime, all of the data provided to me by generous TMF members such as yourself (around 55 Chippendales, if I counted correctly), is all here in the public domain, and shall remain as long as the forum is alive. This post has become a pretty substantial cross-section of machines, and is a great resource in and of itself. I'm hopeful that it will continue to grow through future TMF member participation, and I will continue to maintain it's progress even after I've finished my research.

Of course, my articles in The Antique Phonograph are intended to be much more detail-oriented than a spreadsheet could ever be, and I get into the much finer points of my research, which the spreadsheet only begins to encompass.

Hello, Fran
Before you get done with this have you given any thought to including the CC-32 console as it is technically a (official Laboratory Model)Chippendale also.

Regards, Ken

I have been following the Chippendale Console with interest, and have been recording the same relative data as for the Upright, but the Console falls outside of the parameters of my initial study, and will not be included in my final study. What I may do in the future is expand my study of the Edisonics, LP Consoles, and other interesting DD Phonographs to include the CC-32.

The William and Mary is also an "Official Laboratory Model", and I haven't included that in my C 250/C 19 study, either. Perhaps at a future date, I will include this model, too. BUT, where to "draw the line" so to speak? I've also been following the A and B 250 models with some interest...and then there are a universe full of accessories that I'd like to know more about, too. I'm not sure I'll live long enough to accomplish all I'd like.

Best,
Fran

[marcapra]

I read with great interest your second article on the Edison Chippendale phonograph and noticed that you included a mention of the Chippendale CC-32 console version that was introduced in 1922, about the same time as the BC 34, Baby Console version. In your article you say that there are two record storage cupboards on each side of the horn compartment, holding 34 records each. I thought you probably got that information from the Frow book who says "Cupboards for 34 records at either side of the central motor compartment." Although Frow doesn't say 34 records in each cupboard, I can see how one could interpret that meaning. I don't own a CC-32 Chippendale, but I do own a CC-33 William and Mary Edison Lab model, and on the left cupboard the numbers go from 1 - 17 and on the right, they go from 18 - 34.

[Lucius1958]

I read with great interest your second article on the Edison Chippendale phonograph and noticed that you included a mention of the Chippendale CC-32 console version that was introduced in 1922, about the same time as the BC 34, Baby Console version. In your article you say that there are two record storage cupboards on each side of the horn compartment, holding 34 records each. I thought you probably got that information from the Frow book who says "Cupboards for 34 records at either side of the central motor compartment." Although Frow doesn't say 34 records in each cupboard, I can see how one could interpret that meaning. I don't own a CC-32 Chippendale, but I do own a CC-33 William and Mary Edison Lab model, and on the left cupboard the numbers go from 1 - 17 and on the right, they go from 18 - 34.

True: Frow cites the CC-32 as having "cupboards for 34 records on either side of the central motor compartment". That is the exact same wording as in the description for the WMC-33: so your statement is correct.

Bill

[fran604g]

I'm currently out of town, but when I get home, I'll certainly check my notes and determine my error, if any.

Fran

[Edisonh19]

Don't know if you are still compiling or not, I just purchased this machine last week and found your post tonight. Hope this helps!
Ed.

1. What is the Model Designation? C 19

2. What is the Serial Number? SM-111310

3. Is there pin striping on the motor plate? No

4. What is the "Official Laboratory" Medallion shape? Round

5. What is the exact wording on the Medallion? Please be accurate (with abbreviated signature, for example) "Edison Diamond Disc Laboratory Model Thos A Edison"

6. What form of record storage is present:

6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; 1-36 on both strips

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate?: Just the standard mechanical automatic stop mounted at the front of the turntable

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present: none

10. Is there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc.: no

11. Is there Grille cloth present? What is the Color? No, no trace of original cloth

12. Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal (AKA "antique bronze")? Gold plated

13. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door? Rod at the center

14. Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have 2 springs or 3 springs? 2

15. Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous FLAT surface, or is there a large concentric CIRCULAR depression (that is obscured by the turntable) present? Please state FLAT or CIRCULAR. circular

[fran604g]

I read with great interest your second article on the Edison Chippendale phonograph and noticed that you included a mention of the Chippendale CC-32 console version that was introduced in 1922, about the same time as the BC 34, Baby Console version. In your article you say that there are two record storage cupboards on each side of the horn compartment, holding 34 records each. I thought you probably got that information from the Frow book who says "Cupboards for 34 records at either side of the central motor compartment." Although Frow doesn't say 34 records in each cupboard, I can see how one could interpret that meaning. I don't own a CC-32 Chippendale, but I do own a CC-33 William and Mary Edison Lab model, and on the left cupboard the numbers go from 1 - 17 and on the right, they go from 18 - 34.

Thank you for your contribution, Marc.

You are correct, and as I cited earlier in the paragraph, this information is from George L. Frow, The Edison Diamond Disc Phonographs and the Diamond Discs (Mulholland Press) 2001, pg. 159.

At the end of my sentence describing the "cupboards" of the CC-32, the word "each" should be omitted in any revision for your records. A simple typo.

My wording leaves a bit of confusion, as Frow states, "Cupboards for 34 records at either side of the central motor compartment." My apologies for my wording, and any confusion it may have caused. My study did not specifically include the Chippendale Console (CC-32), and my final draft of Part II purposely mentions it only in passing, simply to differentiate it from the Chippendale "Upright"; which my body of work actually encompasses. I almost left the "Console" reference out of the article, but in the end, I thought it worthy of mentioning.

Best regards,
Fran

[fran604g]

Don't know if you are still compiling or not, I just purchased this machine last week and found your post tonight. Hope this helps!
Ed.

1. What is the Model Designation? C 19

2. What is the Serial Number? SM-111310

3. Is there pin striping on the motor plate? No

4. What is the "Official Laboratory" Medallion shape? Round

5. What is the exact wording on the Medallion? Please be accurate (with abbreviated signature, for example) "Edison Diamond Disc Laboratory Model Thos A Edison"

6. What form of record storage is present:

6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; 1-36 on both strips

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate?: Just the standard mechanical automatic stop mounted at the front of the turntable

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present: none

10. Is there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc.: no

11. Is there Grille cloth present? What is the Color? No, no trace of original cloth

12. Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal (AKA "antique bronze")? Gold plated

13. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door? Rod at the center

14. Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have 2 springs or 3 springs? 2

15. Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous FLAT surface, or is there a large concentric CIRCULAR depression (that is obscured by the turntable) present? Please state FLAT or CIRCULAR. circular

IMG_4704.JPG

Thank you, Ed, I have entered your data into my spreadsheet.

Thank you for your contribution,
Fran

[fran604g]

This post is a slightly modified and updated (4-6-2016) version of my original survey for members that may not have participated in my project.

Admittedly -- over time -- I have found the need to increase and refine the scope of my original study to include a few more features to my questionnaire; any members that have already provided me with their information may provide additional pertinent observations if they wish.

As always, your participation is greatly appreciated and will ultimately provide the collecting community with valuable information. Look for PART III of my 4 part series appearing in the June 2016 issue of The Antique Phonograph.

It is my intention to compile data to establish as closely as I can when significant production changes were made to the C 250 and C 19 Diamond Disc Phonographs over their lifetimes. Once compiled, I hope to be able to demonstrate a chronological history of these changes and identify when those changes may have been implemented by Thomas A. Edison Inc.

I routinely do searches on eBAY, and Craigslist; Chippendales you may find on those sites are not necessary to list here, and please do not post links to machines, thank you.

The following are particular features that I am observing, please number your responses appropriately:

1. What is the Model Designation? C 250 or C 19

2. What is the Serial Number? SM-??????

3. Is there pin striping on the motor plate? Yes/No

4. What is the "Official Laboratory" Medallion shape? Round or Pentagonal

5. What is the exact wording on the Medallion? Please be accurate (with abbreviated signature, for example)

6. What form of record storage is present:
6A) 2 Drawers divided with 5-compartments
6B) 2 Drawers divided by individual record "slots" numbered 1-38.
6C) 2 Shelves divided by individual record "slots"; Are the corresponding numbered strips for the shelves: 1-36 on both strips OR are they numbered 1-36 on the top strip and 37-72 on the bottom strip?

7. Cabinet Wood Type: Mahogany or Oak

8. Is an "Electric Automatic Stop" (AKA Duncan Stop) present on the motor plate?: Yes/No

9. Please list any dealer tags or decals present: Name/Address, location on machine, etc.

10. Is there any original dated sales receipts/shipping documentation, etc.: (Dates are particularly noteworthy)

11. Is there Grille cloth present? What is the Color?

12. Is the reproducer, horn throat, and other hardware on the turntable gold plated or gun-metal (AKA "antique bronze")?

13. Is the record storage door held open by a rod at the top, center, or the bottom of the cabinet door?

14. Does the governor (located beneath the turntable) have 2 springs or 3 springs?

15. Does the top of the motor plate have a continuous FLAT surface, or is there a large concentric CIRCULAR depression (that is obscured by the turntable) present? Please state FLAT or CIRCULAR.

As I near completion of my research, I'd like to thank you for your time and effort in providing me (and by extension, the entire collecting community) with your Chippendale information.

I urge you -- as a contributor to this project -- if you wish to be acknowledged in the final article(s), please provide me with your first and last names in your reply, or you may PM me here, or email me at FPratt1426 (at) gmail (dot) com.

Your participation and comments are truly appreciated.

Thank you all,
Fran