Brown Grooves on Edison Diamond Disc? Is my stylus chipped?

[oldphonographsteve]

Hello everyone,
One of my Diamond Disc machines produces brown grooves when playing certain records, at seemingly random times. I have played the same record about a dozen times now and suddenly with the last playing there is now about a centimeter of brown grooves in the middle of the record. Is my stylus chipped or could this be something else?

-Steve

[phonojim]

First of all, don't play any more records on that machine until you find the cause of the problem. There could be several things causing this. One is a badly chipped stylus, but it seems to me that if that were the problem, it would damage the whole side from beginning to end and do so on any record you play on the machine.
The problem could also be that the records which exhibit this problem could be badly warped in such a way that the weight is contacting the reproducer body for all or part of the rotation. If this happens, the stylus has no vertical movement and is left with nowhere to go except into the record surface. The source of the problem may also be that the reproducer height is not set correctly (too low in this case) which will reduce the machine's tolerance for warped records. There is an adjustment procedure for this which involves raising/lowering the entire horn and reproducer assembly. I believe the procedure for making the adjustment has been previously discussed on this forum and you will find it with a search.
To test for reproducer height, first examine the record in your photo for warpage. Use a straightedge so you can be sure of the extent of warpage. Then place the record on the turntable and rotate it so that the worst of the damage will be positioned directly under the diamond. Swing the reproducer toward the center until the diamond is directly over the damaged area. Do not start the motor at any point in this test - is a static test only and you don't want to cause further damage to anything. Carefully lower the reproducer all the way down (raise/lower lever straight up) and observe the front of the reproducer at the limit pin. If the weight is contacting the body of the reproducer, you may have an adjustment problem. Next make the same test with an unwarped record. With the stylus on the record the limit pin should be in the vertical center of the loop. I think your problem is a few badly warped records and a horn height adjustment that is slightly off on the one machine.
I also think you should check your diamond for damage. It probably hasn't been hurt, but its better to be sure about it.

Jim

[Valecnik]

First of all, don't play any more records on that machine until you find the cause of the problem. There could be several things causing this. One is a badly chipped stylus, but it seems to me that if that were the problem, it would damage the whole side from beginning to end and do so on any record you play on the machine.
The problem could also be that the records which exhibit this problem could be badly warped in such a way that the weight is contacting the reproducer body for all or part of the rotation. If this happens, the stylus has no vertical movement and is left with nowhere to go except into the record surface. The source of the problem may also be that the reproducer height is not set correctly (too low in this case) which will reduce the machine's tolerance for warped records. There is an adjustment procedure for this which involves raising/lowering the entire horn and reproducer assembly. I believe the procedure for making the adjustment has been previously discussed on this forum and you will find it with a search.
To test for reproducer height, first examine the record in your photo for warpage. Use a straightedge so you can be sure of the extent of warpage. Then place the record on the turntable and rotate it so that the worst of the damage will be positioned directly under the diamond. Swing the reproducer toward the center until the diamond is directly over the damaged area. Do not start the motor at any point in this test - is a static test only and you don't want to cause further damage to anything. Carefully lower the reproducer all the way down (raise/lower lever straight up) and observe the front of the reproducer at the limit pin. If the weight is contacting the body of the reproducer, you may have an adjustment problem. Next make the same test with an unwarped record. With the stylus on the record the limit pin should be in the vertical center of the loop. I think your problem is a few badly warped records and a horn height adjustment that is slightly off on the one machine.
I also think you should check your diamond for damage. It probably hasn't been hurt, but its better to be sure about it.

Jim

I agree with Jim. Looks like a warped record combined with the reproducer set too so that the limit pin is bumping against the reproducer shell and grinding the stylus into the record. If you didn't need a new stylus before you probably need one now. If your stylus is original, there's a 90% probability you needed one anyway.

[oldphonographsteve]

First of all, don't play any more records on that machine until you find the cause of the problem. There could be several things causing this. One is a badly chipped stylus, but it seems to me that if that were the problem, it would damage the whole side from beginning to end and do so on any record you play on the machine.
The problem could also be that the records which exhibit this problem could be badly warped in such a way that the weight is contacting the reproducer body for all or part of the rotation. If this happens, the stylus has no vertical movement and is left with nowhere to go except into the record surface. The source of the problem may also be that the reproducer height is not set correctly (too low in this case) which will reduce the machine's tolerance for warped records. There is an adjustment procedure for this which involves raising/lowering the entire horn and reproducer assembly. I believe the procedure for making the adjustment has been previously discussed on this forum and you will find it with a search.
To test for reproducer height, first examine the record in your photo for warpage. Use a straightedge so you can be sure of the extent of warpage. Then place the record on the turntable and rotate it so that the worst of the damage will be positioned directly under the diamond. Swing the reproducer toward the center until the diamond is directly over the damaged area. Do not start the motor at any point in this test - is a static test only and you don't want to cause further damage to anything. Carefully lower the reproducer all the way down (raise/lower lever straight up) and observe the front of the reproducer at the limit pin. If the weight is contacting the body of the reproducer, you may have an adjustment problem. Next make the same test with an unwarped record. With the stylus on the record the limit pin should be in the vertical center of the loop. I think your problem is a few badly warped records and a horn height adjustment that is slightly off on the one machine.
I also think you should check your diamond for damage. It probably hasn't been hurt, but its better to be sure about it.

Jim

I just tested it and yes, the reproducer height is a bit too low and the record is pretty warped. The weight does contact the body of the reproducer, but only on these several records which are warped. How do I change the reproducer height?
-Steve

[Phonofreak]

First, I would check the stylus. Use a loupe or a magnifying glass. Also, lightly rub your fingernail on the stylus. If the stylus scratches your fingernail, then the stylus is bad. If the stylus is good, then follow the other suggestions of the reproducer height. If all else fails, send it to Steve Medved.
Harvey Kravitz

[oldphonographsteve]

I have figured out the problem. The reproducer was a little loose and thus dropped lower than it should have. I want to thank everybody for their generous help! Looks like this problem is on me and not on the machine.

-Steve

[Phonofreak]

Glad to hear it was a simple fix. Sometimes we miss the simplest, most obvious solutions.
Harvey Kravitz

[NEFaurora]

You know its funny, I don't know what it is, but Is it just me, or Does every Original Diamond Disc machine that I come in contact with need a new replacement Diamond stylus because it ruins Records, Yet Every Original Diamond Amberola machine that I come in contact with plays just fine and the Original Diamond stylus is just fine. Why are all the Original Diamond Disc stylus's failing???..and always worn out?? And the Amberolas Are always Ok.. Is it Vertical vs. Lateral cut?!??! I mean the Diamond Disc machines play at half the speed of Amberolas..so you'd think if there was wear, It would be less on the Diamond Disc machines.. Apparently not.

Do others here experience the same thing??

Anyone have an idea?? I have always wondered this.

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[GrafonolaG50]

Could it be grit that is /has accumulating/ed easier on the flat disc wearing the stylus, while cylinders stay in clean cylinder boxes? Just an observation.

[Lucius1958]

You know its funny, I don't know what it is, but Is it just me, or Does every Original Diamond Disc machine that I come in contact with need a new replacement Diamond stylus because it ruins Records, Yet Every Original Diamond Amberola machine that I come in contact with plays just fine and the Original Diamond stylus is just fine. Why are all the Original Diamond Disc stylus's failing???..and always worn out?? And the Amberolas Are always Ok.. Is it Vertical vs. Lateral cut?!??! I mean the Diamond Disc machines play at half the speed of Amberolas..so you'd think if there was wear, It would be less on the Diamond Disc machines.. Apparently not.

Do others here experience the same thing??

Anyone have an idea?? I have always wondered this.

)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

Actually, I examined the stylus on my C-250 very closely with a loupe, and found no apparent wear. It works perfectly well.

I wonder whether there is any difference in weight between the cylinder and disc reproducers, which might account for a susceptibility to wear; or whether DD owners were not very careful about keeping their records clean: dust on the record might act as an abrasive.

Bill