US Banner Phonograph

[rgordon939]

I thought I would post this just so people could see it and maybe comment on what they think of the price. At the William J. Jenack Auction in Chester, NY today a US Banner phonograph SN1605 complete with both reproducers sold for $1100.00. Plus there was a 15% inhouse premium or a 21% online premium and an 8.18% sales tax. Here is a picture of the machine. What do you think of the machine and the price? I wonder if anyone on the forum bought it?

Rich Gordon

[FellowCollector]

I was a bidder on this by telephone. I'm reasonably confident that Mark G. (CroakinFrog) bought it as well as many of the other phonographs at this auction. I could be wrong and if I am please accept my apologies for the presumption. I made the long drive to preview this auction on Friday. Most of the phonographs in the auction were in what I consider only fair condition. The one Zonophone front mount was quite nice and it came with three 7" Zonophone discs and I believe two 9" zonophone discs. It played very nicely.

Pretty sure the US Banner had a home made back mount using an Edison Cygnet bracket along with some plumbing elbows (or whatever!) all painted black. I've seen a few U-S Phonographs in person and have never seen a back mount like this one so thus, my presumption that it was home made with the Cygnet bracket. The reproducers were present and moved laterally as they should. This U-S Banner phonograph actually played quite nicely in the 2 minute setting which is why I was interested. Since there was only a 2 minute Indestructible mounted I could not test in 4 minute mode. The bedplate was quite rough with much of the original striping worn a lot. I would have bid a lot higher if the back mount was correct and the bedplate was better. Also the corner columns I've seen on other U-S Banner Phonographs had more interesting columns than this one leading me to wonder about the ones on this. Before I actually saw this U-S Banner Phonograph in person I thought it might be U-S Junior since this model has plain corner columns like this one. But then I saw the size in person as well as the ID plate and I said OK. Considering the mediocre bedplate condition and replaced back mount (again, I believe!) $1100 plus buyer premium was just about what it was worth IMHO. I would have easily taken it up to at least 2K or better if the condition and back mount were all good and original because it played pretty well.

The Pathé cylinder phono was nice and the Victor M was rather ho-hum to me so I didn;t bother looking at it.

There was a sweet little 2/4 minute Oxford cylinder phonograph (obviously made by Columbia and listed as a Graphophone BKT but pretty confident it was one of the mail order Oxfords sold by Montgomery Ward / Sears since there were no cabinet decals). Nice horn on it and the 2/4 minute worked great.

The cylinders were mostly rough and from what I saw most were very common titles. Since I'm a sincere cylinder collector I looked through all of the boxes but did not look thoroughly at the bottom layers in each box (of approximately 48 cylinders) but from what I could tell the cylinders were pretty common and the 2 minute wax were mostly moldy. I REALLY was hoping to see some Lakeside and US Everlasting cylinders in the boxes but I only counted maybe 5 of them and they were all in different lots! I love Lakesides and US Everlastings. Interestingly there was a copy of "POPEYE" on a reproduction cylinder so apparently the original owner of the collection (an older man so I was told, that had recently passed) was buying cylinders fairly recently.

More later... Time to eat dinner.

[Hailey]

It is always good to hear various opinions of our colleagues regarding their interests and assessed values of machines. Based on what I have been reading of late here on the Forum, sounds like things have improved significantly in the marketplace. That is a welcome feeling!

[edisonclassm]

There are two different case styles for the US Banner. This was the plainer version. They also came with a "Lakeside" decal on the front instead of the "US" decal. This particular example looked relatively complete with the exception of the rear support and the small elbow that connects the tone arm to the reproducer. These machines, in my opinion, are way underpriced. To find one intact and working is quite rare. Most people get scared off because of the reproducer being made of pot metal. If they haven't been abused, virtually all reproducers can be repaired successfully without fear of future deterioration. And the machines are quite versatile being able to play all types of standard records.

[rgordon939]

Maybe I shouldn't have sold my US Banner machine at the Wayne show. It was missing the complete reproducer section but did have the original horn mount and elbow.

Rich Gordon

[JerryVan]

I think it's overpriced. Here's why: I repaired one many years ago. It was a nightmare but I did actually get it to work properly after making lots of parts for it. After that experience, I never want to see one again, let alone own one.

[Valecnik]

Hard to tell the condition. If the back bracket is indeed buggered up and the pin striping in bad shape that detracts. If that reproducer has not been rebuilt, it can fall apart at any time.

Rebuilding the reproducer is an expensive task so that's a huge influence on price.

All that said, if the reproducer has been rebuilt, I had one, a Junior and it played loud and clear on both 2 & 4 min. Really good quality but complicated mechanism.

[ambrola]

Here's my old boat anchor. Click on the MOV part and select play.

IMG_0341.MOV

(12.77 MiB) Downloaded 856 times

Opera.jpg (88.95 KiB) Viewed 3418 times

[Valecnik]

Here's my old boat anchor. Click on the MOV part and select play.

IMG_0341.MOV

Opera.jpg

Same guy rebuilt my US Junior "boat anchor" before I owned it, more than 25 years ago. Still runs like a top and sounds great.