How much grease around orthophonic tonearm support bearings?

[barnettrp21122]

This is a question for those familiar with the orthophonic overhead tonearm support.

I'm wondering how much grease should be applied to the area around the 5 ball bearings in the assembly. Should/can it be enough to effectively seal air leakage at that pivot point? I know the large felt washer between the underside and cast iron horn connection should be saturated with new grease.
Your thoughts are welcome!
Bob

[estott]

I would not put all that much- you want that arm to swing with as little resistance as possible to promote needle life and reduce record wear. You shouldn't even engage the automatic stop unless you need to- it adds drag

[Oceangoer1]

That ball bearing area is pretty deep and can probably hold a lot of grease, due to that lip where the tonearm disappears from view. I think adding extra wouldn't hurt and it probably helps more to prevent air leaks. As you use the machine, and the parts move, the grease could find its way into new crevices, and you might end up with less around the bearings.

I say add more, IF the tonearm is original and hasn't been cleaned, adjusted, replaced, etc. I actually took mine out to add more grease because I felt like there wasn't enough. Just make sure the amount of grease doesn't impede the movement of the tonearm.

[JerryVan]

I would, and do, use enough grease to fill any voids between the tone arm and the base where the bearings run. I can't think of any grease that would impede tone arm movement, especially when the tone arm moves so slowly as it does. A lighter grade of grease might be more clingy and therefore more effective than a heavy grade that might get pushed out of the way by the rolling balls and not refill the void.

[barnettrp21122]

Thanks, guys, for the replies. If I experiment with more grease, I'll do it with the assembly out of the machine. I don't want to have a mess dripping down into the Credenza horn!
Looking up different grades of grease on the internet I found this chart:

It compares thickness to common household food items. So the question might be "should I go with brown mustard, tomato paste or peanut butter?"
Maybe I'll make a sandwich while I think about it!
Bob

[De Soto Frank]

This should spark some discussion...

Last weekend, I had to do an "emergency" top-bracket replacement on my 8-12, as the original split at the set-screw / upper pin boss right before a friend was coming over for an evening of record spinning.

So, the both of us got a crash-course in replacing the upper cast bracket.

When we got everything apart, we found the lower "plate" & bearing "cup" full of thick, sticky "grease".

I cleaned all of that out, and as we were getting ready to re-assemble, with new balls, I thought about that "cup", and what lube was supposed to be in there.

I thought about the "goo" that I cleaned-out of the bearing trough, and how much it reminded me of the brown glop I've cleaned out of oil cups on antique fans an other electric motors... goo that was once oil.

I also wondered about how that lower bearing/pivot was supposed to seal against air-leaks.

Soooo, I decided to experiment, and re-assembled by placing the bottom plate in the machine first, and installing the four screws. Then I placed the notched bearing "spider", and added some light oil, enough to cover the spider. I then I carefully dropped-in the five bearing balls. Then added more oil, to just shy of the top of the inner neck of the base. Then we installed the upper bracket and tone-arm.

If my theory is correct, the flanged bottom edge of the tapering tube will be submerged in the trough of oil, preventing any air leakage at this joint, but not creating significant drag.

The trough seems liquid-tight.

This machine is a family heirloom, and does not get moved around, so there's little chance of it getting tipped during my lifetime.

I'll check on the oil level in a month or so... if it has not leaked, I will probably remove the 3 in 1, and replace with a good synthetic, to reduce evaporation of volatile compounds.

I don't know what Victor put in there originally, but it seems that if we pack enough grease in there to seal against air-leaks, it might stiffen the swing too much ?

[barnettrp21122]

This should spark some discussion...

Last weekend, I had to do an "emergency" top-bracket replacement on my 8-12, as the original split at the set-screw / upper pin boss right before a friend was coming over for an evening of record spinning.

So, the both of us got a crash-course in replacing the upper cast bracket.

When we got everything apart, we found the lower "plate" & bearing "cup" full of thick, sticky "grease".

I cleaned all of that out, and as we were getting ready to re-assemble, with new balls, I thought about that "cup", and what lube was supposed to be in there.

I thought about the "goo" that I cleaned-out of the bearing trough, and how much it reminded me of the brown glop I've cleaned out of oil cups on antique fans an other electric motors... goo that was once oil.

I also wondered about how that lower bearing/pivot was supposed to seal against air-leaks.

Soooo, I decided to experiment, and re-assembled by placing the bottom plate in the machine first, and installing the four screws. Then I placed the notched bearing "spider", and added some light oil, enough to cover the spider. I then I carefully dropped-in the five bearing balls. Then added more oil, to just shy of the top of the inner neck of the base. Then we installed the upper bracket and tone-arm.

If my theory is correct, the flanged bottom edge of the tapering tube will be submerged in the trough of oil, preventing any air leakage at this joint, but not creating significant drag.

The trough seems liquid-tight.

This machine is a family heirloom, and does not get moved around, so there's little chance of it getting tipped during my lifetime.

I'll check on the oil level in a month or so... if it has not leaked, I will probably remove the 3 in 1, and replace with a good synthetic, to reduce evaporation of volatile compounds.

I don't know what Victor put in there originally, but it seems that if we pack enough grease in there to seal against air-leaks, it might stiffen the swing too much ?

Thanks for your observations! I like that you've tried this oil seal already. I think any new grease would have to be really stiff in order to impede tone arm travel, and would more likely clump up and open the seal anyway.
I'm thinking about trying SAE 85W-140 gear oil. It's pretty thick, like Log Cabin syrup.
Pancakes for lunch?
Bob

[De Soto Frank]

I'd avoid the heavy gear-lube: HIGH "stink factor".

I used a stinky grease on the spring barrels of a VV-XI 10+ years ago, and it still makes me wrinkle my nose when I open the machine to play a record.


I don't think we need a heavy oil, necessarily, just something that won't evaporate into sludge.


At any rate, try to find something that doesn't smell noxious.

Perhaps medical grade mineral oil from the Drug Store ?

[Henry]

At the risk of repeating myself ("Pardon my redundancy," as WC Fields would say), two recommendations: Labelle no. 102 gear lubricant, a thick, plastic-compatible oil, and Labelle no. 106 plastic-compatible gear grease with Teflon (PTFE). No smell, long-lasting, very effective, comes in small-quantity containers: needle-point oiler and tube, respectively. Source: model railroad hobby shops, or direct from maker: http://www.labelle-lubricants.com/Label ... Flyer.html

It might be cost prohibitive to use the Labelle gear grease in quantities sufficient to lubricate spring motors, but for gears it works great. For the taper tube bracket, either the oil or the grease would do.

(Frank, I bet that hobby shop on Lackawanna Ave. next door to Coney Island Hot Dogs has this stuff! )

[De Soto Frank]

Thanks for the tip, Henry -good excuse to wander down that way and have some hah-dahgs !