In search of blanks for my 2 minute Edison

[Edisonh19]

I recently purchased a recorder for my Edison Standard model A but cannot locate blank cylinders. I am just beginning, so I am not looking to spend a fortune on blanks in case I make some goofs. I attempted to contact an outfit in the UK that was offering cylinders 10 for $150, but have gotten no answer. That is the cheapest price I have found. Anyone know where I can get some blanks? I'm not planning to attend the phono show in New Jersey, so waiting for that won't be a viable solution. I'd really appreciate any help!

Thank you!
Ed.

[Lucius1958]

The English source you mention is probably Paul Morris, I believe?

There are two people on this forum who produce blanks of excellent quality: Shawn Borri and Chuck Richards.

They're not cheap, though: as the saying goes, "you get what you pay for".

Finding original shaved blanks in the wild is pretty difficult: one thing you shouldn't do is to shave old brown wax cylinders, even if they look too moldy, or have "uninteresting" content - once they're shaved, that information is lost forever.

I believe "Victrolaguy" sometimes sells blanks that are cut and shaved down from old dictation cylinders: but you should be careful that they are Ediphone, and not Dictaphone, as the latter appears to have used lead in their formula. The recording quality will not be up to brown wax standards, though.

I hope this info is of some help.

Bill

[Edisonh19]

Thank you Bill. I had no idea that the blanks were so difficult to locate. I don't want to pay a lot for them because I have never tried recording before. It's more a fun project than anything else, so I don't want to invest large sums. I think some charge upwards of $50 per cylinder. I understand that it's a time consuming process to make them, etc, so I'm not by any means criticizing. Just hoping to locate some cheap ones to try my hand at this process before I invest more into it.

[rgordon939]

PM sent.

Rich Gordon

[edisonphonoworks]

Paul Morris is the cheapest source of blanks,and the best to start for the beginner. I sell mine for $35.00 each for standard grade and $40 for the premium. and Chuck Richards is $40.00-50.00. I know they are expensive however if you search my posts, or Chuck Richards posts, you will find the process, it actually takes several days to make a blank of quality. I would honestly say Chuck Richards makes the best available blank at this time (or maybe any time ever in the history of cylinder blanks.) However I have adapted the process and formula, just have to buy the correct brands of ingredients. You wold not think it would make a difference as long as the chemical was the same... but they are not all the same for record making purposes, only very specific brands of ingredients work the best. I do suggest our blanks only to those who have a little practice with recording. Ediphone (Edison brand only) as someone suggests is Aluminum based, I suspect that Dictaphone could be a combination of both Aluminum and lead based formulas,depending on kind, and year of manufacture, so kind of a crap shoot on other brands of dictation blanks other than Edison. Victrola Guy's test of a Dictaphone blank did not turn up lead. It is interesting how a company will patent something and it not be the actual product and the lead patent was in 1955! It is also not to say that some dictation blanks other than Edison don't contain lead. It is not to say that Lead blanks are poor for recording, in later years the formula was perfected,and many master waxes made for the disc companies, including Edison, and Vocalion Disc masters of lead stearate and montan wax were proffered the lasting qualities are questionable, as lead oxide comes to the surface, but for masters are very good grade. I would love to be able to try some of those master lead formulas, but I am a little worried about my health and disposal of waste from the process. Another alternate is Columbia black wax moulded blanks, they are quite recordable, however even some very moldy Columbia moulded cylinders still play quite well. As I said shaving original brown wax, you might as well burn a stack of Berliners, it equates to one in the same! If I see some more brown wax shaved, maybe I should start buying Berliner discs and burn them on Youtube!

[rgordon939]

Not sure I understand you statement that shaving brow wax cylinders is like burning Berliner discs. I agree that brown wax cylinders than have any content on them should be saved. On the other hand you often find brown wax cylinders that are totally encrusted in mold that are unplayable and of no value historically or monetarily. I don't see any problem using these cylinders to shave and use to record on. When cleaned with Labtone prior to shaving to remove the mold on the inside of the cylinder they make for very nice blanks. I sold 100 of them to the Victrolaguy at the last Wayne New Jersey show and he was very pleased with them.

Rich Gordon

[Edisonh19]

Thanks guys. Just looking for some inexpensive alternatives to get started. I don't even know if my recorder will work well, as it is untested. It appears to be in proper working order, etc, but you never know with this stuff. I just don't want to mess up something I've paid a lot of money for (ie. a $50 blank). Eventually, I'd enjoy making some high quality recordings, but for now, I just need something to get started with.

And as I said, I don't want anyone to feel insulted or anything because I'm saying that the blanks are expensive. I understand that it's quite a process and that the materials themselves are expensive. It sounds like quite a process to produce these. I wonder how they produced so many in bulk at the turn of the century? If I knew I could produce a quality recording on the first try, I would invest. I've read several threads on here about the quality of one blank compared to another, so I know what I will probably invest in if I continue to dabble in recording.

As far as shaving old records... it's only the brown wax that can be shaved? What about the black wax Gold Moulded ones? Or aren't they satisfactory for recording purposes? I have some that are so damaged and moldy that there is literally nothing left on them. It's like listening to a blank record. Even in their damaged state, I have a hard time getting rid of them. I tend to keep them stowed away from my good records.

I really do appreciate the great input. It all helps. I've learned so much already!

[edisonphonoworks]

When I started cylinder recording on two minute cylinders (I had a Dictaphone in the 1980's to practice on.) in 1994, I would use lamp oil and a cotton cloth to wipe the old recording off an Edison gold moulded records, and i ruined a very nice original recorder doing this repeatedly. The alternate to destroying a direct recorded brown wax blank, is to use Columbia moulded records, they are in fact brown wax,colored black with lamp black, Columbia did not know Edison's moulded formula, and Columbia moulded are not much different from the cut brown wax, in composition. They toted them as the shavable moulded record. Be sure that the recording is completely obliterated and not decipherable before attempting to shave any of these Columbia molded records. Columbia's themselves are actually hard to find in good condition these days, as the stearic was a lower quality than Edison records, however even some very mold Columbias are quite discernible even in poor condition. I know some collectors or going to be critical of the photo below, to give you an idea, most would not hesitate to shave these I am sure, however I can discern the one with the badly molded center is School Days, and is a loud home recording,this record the outside was as moldy as the inside, as you see pure white with mold,in fact it was the thick cakey powdery white mold and has been cleaned with labtone and distilled water, it plays, so must be saved! So this give you an idea how bad a cylinder must be to be be turned into a blank, it must be much worse than this, this cylinder is still a keeper and not to be shaved. I know it is hard to discern what to shave, and what not to. Many of you collected in the 50's-1970's when cylinders in good playing condition were many, and the smallest flaw to you made them seem unplayable to you.

[Edisonh19]

Interesting. I've not seen a brown wax cylinder in person, only in photos online, so I haven't encountered that degree of mold before. My cylinders are all black Gold Moulded Edisons as well as one Columbia (which is in perfect shiny condition) and an Oxford. I wonder, how can I verify that the Columbia cylinder is actually a Columbia? Some of my Edisons have only hand etched numbers on the smooth play out area along with the raised Edison logo and have the boxes are blue-toned. I assume that these are older examples.

I remember these cylinders being plentiful in the late 80s when I was a kid. I used to buy them for $1 or $2 and had them sitting around as curiosities. I never had a cylinder player until 2 years ago. Wish I had picked up more records back then! I rarely find any that are in reasonable condition with good content anymore. The Gold Moulded ones seem to disintegrate badly once the mold takes over. I have a few that are so bad that you might catch a word or something every couple seconds.

[edisonphonoworks]

Early Columbia moulded records usually have Columbia Records stamped after the playing grooves, an the catalog number. The early Edison Gold Moulded records as you say, have a small number and Thomas A Edison signature after the playing grooves. These earlier Gold Moulded records are not easy to find, and to find in good condition, as they also did not have liners in the boxes, but rather the whole wrapped in batting, like brown wax. The Edison black wax record came out in January of 1902, and made until 1904 (flat end non title), in fact during 1904 both title and non title records were made together, I have the Gold Moulded produciton process notes, and it states that Non label records take one minute more to mold, (15 instead of 14.) The two minute Gold Moulded record though was produced until 1914. I started collecting cylinders when I was 11, way before I had a machine to play them. I remember most cylinders you found were in good condition, and $3-10.00 each, however by the mid 1990's it started becoming more difficult to find, clean, mold free cylinders. I used to see mint ones around here, all the time, and have not seen one in the last 15 years.