Why is a 20s record of Charleston hard to find?

[VintageTechnologies]

In nearly 50 years, I have never stumbled across the Charleston on Edison. I might have it on Victor. This thread is very illuminating.

I have an idea that every generation is horrified by their kids pop music. If the music is inherently good, then it may gain respectability and move into the mainstream culture a generation later.

I remember the adult reaction to the longhair music of my youth. My parents (who grew up on Stan Kenton!) thought the Beatles with their wild music and long hair were communist-inspired subversion. I once dropped a dime into the jukebox at a local diner to hear "Hey Jude" and received an icy stare from every old fogey in the joint. Very awkward. The Beatles seem pretty tame now.

[Curt A]

"but we do kind of forget too about the stigma that some of those songs had at the time. And that it was ok to listen to music like that at a dance or at a restaurant or hotel lobby, or even the radio. But to actually have that stuff in your home was kind of another matter."

I think we finally hit on the actual reason that they are scarce... It was considered evil jazz by a lot of people, including Thomas Edison, so they were destroyed (except by Episcopalians)

Another band that is hard to find is Irving Aaronson's Commanders who made some great records...

Let's Misbehave
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIXbqnPNp0k

[gramophone78]

Just to add....when Whiteman's Charleston was released, it was placed on the 'B' side. Don't think it was expected to be as big a hit as it turned out. I only play my lesser copy... .

https://youtu.be/iYXhBvRvlJg

[Valecnik]

Luckily, I own both the Vulcan 4 min. cylinder version of Charleston, and I just acquired the original Diamond Disc record, from NOS stock from the collection of Ron Dethlefson. If that used one on Ebay right now can't even be bought for $200, I'm afraid to even play my NOS copy! Thanks for all the education on this title. I think most of the original records of Charleston came out between 1923 and 1925. Probably, most bands stopped playing it by 1926 because it was probably being considered an "oldie" by then. I wonder if the Charleston dance craze died out about that time also? I know a new dance craze started sometime in 1926, I think, called Black Bottom.

I agree Mark. I would not play the NOS copy on original equipment either. It's just too rare and expensive. Anyway the Vulcan version is great. I've posted it here before but here it is again.

[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ3ZHZ71vhU[/youtubehd]

[snallast]

My Grandmother was born in 1904 and when I first dragged my diamond disk machine home in the early 70's I asked her about the Charleston, and if she ever had that record. She said that she really didn't approve much of "wild jazz music" and certainly wouldn't have had a record like that in the house for all the neighbors to see! My Mom still laughs about some family that lived a few miles north of them that came home one afternoon in the 20's and found a couple of the daughters trying to learn the Charleston. So they hauled the Victrola out to the grove and burned it up with the trash! They must have been strict Baptists or something, but we do kind of forget too about the stigma that some of those songs had at the time. And that it was ok to listen to music like that at a dance or at a restaurant or hotel lobby, or even the radio. But to actually have that stuff in your home was kind of another matter.

I bought a low end orthophonic Victrola from an antique dealer about 25 years ago because it was all full of really good dance music and even had a number of Supertone "Race Series" records in it. The dealer told me it came from a local estate and she didn't think there could be anything in there but hymns since he was a pastor in town, and his father had been one also. My Mom just happened to come over to my house the day I got it home and I told her about it belonging to a pastor, et. And after she looked through about half of the records she told me that that must have been Episcopalians since they were the only one's around here that would have allowed music like that in the house.... It turned out that she was right! One of my Grandmother's sisters was still alive then and I told her about that machine and how Mom called them out on it and Esther just said, "You know, those Episcopals would have card parties, dance, drink, and everything!"

I've run across 6-8 copies over the years, and the best version I have is on the Oriole label, but the record is worn really badly. And on the subject of having the 'wrong' music in your Victrola, I think they also thought that they should have the 'right' music in their machine also. How many worn our Red Seal records have any of you run across? Or even hymns for that matter. Country music seems to be nearly always played to death or maybe they couldn't afford to change needles.

Thankyou for the above!! I really enjoy reading such personal stories that make this hobby so interesting, and yes I think we forget how almost "underground" a lot of the hot music of the twenties and the whole world that surrounded it was, and also that it was much less widespread than we tend to think afterwards... much like the hippie movement of 1967 - 1971, a few very colourful years, but how many people were really hippies then? Very few actually and the ones that were, were often shunned by large parts of society for different reasons...

Changing subject here - I read recently that MOMA in NY has now restored THE KING OF JAZZ in all it´s Technicolour splendour and I think it´s about to have it´s world premiere soon. Hopefully it will be available digitally somehow! I saw a 16mm print in the Berkeley Film Archives in the early 70-ies and it was great!!

[VintageTechnologies]

I do not own the Charleston. I do have a copy that was put out by Vulcan on 4 minute cylinder, but I do not think they even sell it anymore.

Here is a copy on e-bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edison-DD-51542 ... SwtJZXWxT7

Something strange is going on. This record has been relisted from $200 to $495.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edison-DD-51542 ... SwtJZXWxT7

[Victrolacollector]

I do not own the Charleston. I do have a copy that was put out by Vulcan on 4 minute cylinder, but I do not think they even sell it anymore.

Here is a copy on e-bay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edison-DD-51542 ... SwtJZXWxT7

Something strange is going on. This record has been relisted from $200 to $495.00

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edison-DD-51542 ... SwtJZXWxT7

Wow! I'm sure it will sell to someone, not me. This is a sought after title. Someone with deep pockets will buy this.

[welshfield]

The seller is probably reading this thread.
John

[jboger]

Yes, almost certainly the seller is reading this thread. I've noticed discussions on this site only to turn to eBay to see the sort of item under discussion now for sale. This more than once, enough to make me think more than a coincidence. Once I was asking about an unmarked Columbia (or a derivative) that I spotted at a nearby auction. Later when I spotted the item on eBay, the seller addressed the very questions--or at least some of them--that I had asked on the Forum. Coincidence? Perhaps. But seems more likely that sellers are reading this site. Nothing wrong with that. They're members. The seller may have upped his price as a consequence. But the only thing that really matters between a buyer and a seller is if a price can be mutually agreed upon. If he's smart and the item doesn't sell, he should lower his price. Of course, he could list the record at $0.99 and let the market decide, but eBay evolved from an auction site to a retail outlet a long time ago. So that ain't likely to happen.

[gramophone-georg]

In nearly 50 years, I have never stumbled across the Charleston on Edison. I might have it on Victor. This thread is very illuminating.

I have an idea that every generation is horrified by their kids pop music. If the music is inherently good, then it may gain respectability and move into the mainstream culture a generation later.

I remember the adult reaction to the longhair music of my youth. My parents (who grew up on Stan Kenton!) thought the Beatles with their wild music and long hair were communist-inspired subversion. I once dropped a dime into the jukebox at a local diner to hear "Hey Jude" and received an icy stare from every old fogey in the joint. Very awkward. The Beatles seem pretty tame now.

Family legend has it that when my maternal grandparents got married in NYC in April 1930 the newlyweds skipped out on the reception and went dancing to Bernie Cummins at the Hotel New Yorker. They were Stork Club members, were at the Benny Goodman Carnegie Hall concert, and used to go to the Blue Room to see Artie Shaw when he was just starting out.

My parents were early crooner and doo wop kids (I was born when they were 21!!!) but they were OK with my Beatles and Beach Boys records. One day, though, I came home with a new 45 by Sly and the Family Stone called "Thank You" and the poop hit the fan...