Transcribing very moldy Columbia.

[edisonphonoworks]

One of the members can attest to the condition of these brown wax records. I am posting. They are the ones in the photos on the videos. Recorded in the 1898-1900 period Stars and Stripes and Uncle Josh and the Meeting of the School House Directors. Shows that you should not shave brown wax. Some records are bad enough that an automatic reproducer is the only way to play them , as a stylus on a pickup could be snapped off by the divots in the record. A .0075 glass was used in an automatic and Home No. 1265 dating from early 1897 used. Microphone M-Audio (makers of Pro Tools.)Studio condenser USB microphone. Again I still think it is ignorance to shave any Brown wax cylinder!!!
https://youtu.be/E1g0uem0y_Q

https://youtu.be/CMOeIiI_E0A

[rgordon939]

Hi Shawn. That is a fairly nice cylinder in the picture. And I agree that cylinders like this should never be shaved even when the volume is low or the noise level is more than desired.

On the flip side I've attached a picture of what I consider a very moldy cylinder. It may look like it is cracked but it is not, that is just a line in the mold. This cylinder has nothing on it that can be captured. Also as you said I do t think anyone would want to risk damaging thier reproducer trying to play a cylinder like this. These are the types of cylinders that I shave. Infact most of the cylinders I shave are in worse condition than this one. I clean them up first with Labtone and deionized water then shave them to a beautiful high luster finish.

I also think the use of the word "ignorance" is unnecessary. We each have many opinions on different aspects of our hobby. Should you clean a machine or leave it as found. Should I refinish the case or bedplate or leave it as is. We all have our opinions about what we think should be done and are entitled to them. But to say publicly that someone who disagrees with your beliefs is ignorant is in poor taste. We are all fellow collectors and need not be discourteous to each other. Have a great day.

Rich Gordon

[edisonphonoworks]

I beg to differ!! First you need to read the ARSC report by Bill Klinger on cylinder survival rate. So we have commercial cylinders individually recorded, historical field recordings, and home recordings,all of these are unique or special. The more people are admonished not to shave and destroy any brown wax, the more we leave a legacy to the future. Unfortunately through psychological warfare, it is though not looking good for future generations to care or preserve history anyhow.

The whole thing is that their may be technology in the future that will even be able to re-construct the sound from the poor cylinders by examining the frequencies and comparing them with voices and instruments and then re-construction of sound, like cylinders in your photo, and I keep cylinder in this condition, and clean them, and put them away for the future. When I was 12 perhaps I would have shaved a cylinder like that without batting an eye, and I did. However I have not shaved an original brown wax in a very long time maybe as long as 20 years. I even have two original Edison blanks one is from 1892-1894 era, and another from the 1900-1903 era, and rather than shave them, or record on them. I have them in the collection for reference purposes, as a pattern for technical measurements, and examples in changes in wax formula. For further reading please read the link below.

http://www.arsc-audio.org/journals/v26/ ... 31-132.pdf

[rgordon939]

Shawn, I have read Bill Klingers report and completely agree with it. Where We differ on is the is the value of a brown wax cylinder that is completely covered in mold and in my opinion of no value to be conserved.

Rich Gordon

[edisonphonoworks]

That is probably why most on here are collectors, dealers and traders. They benefit, as more brown wax cylinders are destroyed, as the value of very nice, playable ones, or ones that sort of play go up in value. Most are not , scientists, or tinkerers or preservationists. By the way I never have cared how many brown wax blanks or cylinders I sell, as that is a hobby, and the more I discourage people from buying my blanks, and cylinders the more I have to use for my own recording work. Which seems to finally have worked in the last year. I am pointing out that in the very near future, it might be possible with technological advances to play and glean from poor condition cylinders, photographs , tracings, graphs sounds. Sure they may have no "collector value" but they still have insurmountable value as links to our innovative, past, the thoughts and lives of people of the 19th, and early 20th century. They are for the study of Ethnology, Musicology, the preservation of song, thoughts and languages. It is interesting that the very few who are on these groups,If you have a certain name, or pedigree, you know that just by who you are, you can stack the market to go up or down the value of certain phonographic items, and media. David Giovannoni and colleges have done insurmountable advances in the field, of preservation and innovation and I suspect that what seems impossible will be possible in the not to distant future to glean sound from what seems worthless wax.

[phono-smitten]

The whole thing is that their may be technology in the future that will even be able to re-construct the sound from the poor cylinders by examining the frequencies and comparing them with voices and instruments and then re-construction of sound, like cylinders in your photo, and I keep cylinder in this condition, and clean them, and put them away for the future.

That's a good point. It may never be possible to play a cylinder with extensive mold growth but perhaps it could be scanned and converted to a digital sound file using technology similar to what is being used to preserve tinfoil recordings. Maybe an image of the 'base' of the mold growth could be captured using methods like those used to examine layers of paintings. Who knows?

[edisonphonoworks]

Phono Smitten, I hope it is possible, I hope there are still hidden gems. In upstate New York a moldy cylinder turned out to be the voice of Edison recorded in 1892, the second oldest cylinder of Edison's voice. Listen closely and compare with the 1888 phonogram available online. The tone the ahhs match! If you start to listen fellow collectors, there is a lot of noise at first, but later, it is understandable, and clearly the voice of Edison. Below is a photo of the cylinder, notice it is smooth bore, and not spiral, similar to the early sound track cylinder for the Dickson film. It is interesting if you listen Edison is a little upset, possibly at J.L president of the North American Phonograph company. I never saw the cylinder in person but I do see Edison's signature on the top of the box, in the photo and also the box is quite unusual. I was told about this cylinder by Mike Loughlin. He did not tell me much about it, but played the audio and showed me the pictures. I wish I had the original audio transcription so I can hear it better, if you notice that the audio was not as good at this time on youtube. What I heard is that Mike died of cancer, Peter Dilg told me this.

https://youtu.be/Fz8O9whTyOw