Columiba Gold Band surface noise oddity

[FloridaClay]

I recently picked up a dozen or so Columbia Gold Band label records, circa 1917-1923. Usually what I do when I acquire old records is wash them and test them on a portable electric phonograph I have to avoid all that winding. I noticed something unusual with these. When played on the electric there is a high degree of surface noise, but when played on my Victor III there is very little. The difference is a lot more marked than I have run into with other acoustic recordings. Is it something about the nature of Columbias of this era?

Clay

[OrthoSean]

If they've been exposed to a damp environment for a long period of time, yes. The cores will absorb the moisture and the surfaces can become grainy and thus noisy.

Sean

[Orchorsol]

Perhaps these 78s' combination of groove size/profile, and the height at which wear has occurred in the groove, are simply a particular mismatch for the stylus of your electrical machine.

[FloridaClay]

If they've been exposed to a damp environment for a long period of time, yes. The cores will absorb the moisture and the surfaces can become grainy and thus noisy.

Sean

Granted, but the remarkable thing here is how unusually high the surface noise is with electric reproduction vs. almost none with acoustic reproduction.

Clay

[FloridaClay]

Perhaps these 78s' combination of groove size/profile, and the height at which wear has occurred in the groove, are simply a particular mismatch for the stylus of your electrical machine.

You could be on to something there. I am guessing that because of the heavier weight of the acoustic reproducer and the finer point of the steel needle the acoustic machine is riding lower in the grove. These records do show surface wear.

Clay

[gramophone78]

Perhaps these 78s' combination of groove size/profile, and the height at which wear has occurred in the groove, are simply a particular mismatch for the stylus of your electrical machine.

You could be on to something there. I am guessing that because of the heavier weight of the acoustic reproducer and the finer point of the steel needle the acoustic machine is riding lower in the grove. These records do show surface wear.

Clay

The above mentioned and also the difference in frequency ranges produced...electric versus acoustic... .

[OrthoSean]

True about acoustic versus electric, but a perfect gold band Columbia acoustic disc that hasn't been exposed to dampness can sound nearly silent played back electrically. Some of them were also just recorded rather poorly, but that's something different. I play almost all of my best records electrically with various sized custom styli. Sometimes a grainy / noisy Columbia (or any other make for that matter) will sound much better using a larger stylus than the "standard" 3 mil. In this case, a 3.8 or 4 mil would likely help.

Sean

[HisMastersVoice]

If they've been exposed to a damp environment for a long period of time, yes. The cores will absorb the moisture and the surfaces can become grainy and thus noisy.

Sean

Sean is correct here, this is an issue caused by the core swelling and distorting the playing surface from exposure to moisture, an unfortunately irreversible change.

[FloridaClay]

If they've been exposed to a damp environment for a long period of time, yes. The cores will absorb the moisture and the surfaces can become grainy and thus noisy.

Sean

Sean is correct here, this is an issue caused by the core swelling and distorting the playing surface from exposure to moisture, an unfortunately irreversible change.

I am somewhat familiar with issues related to Columbia's core system, and I grant that is possible, however, there are no indicia of exposure to dampness on these that I can see.

Clay

[OrthoSean]

Well, that's the thing - you can't always see the issue. Ten years or so back, I wound up with a few hundred unsold dealer stock acoustic Columbias from the notes label to the blue gold band ones. Every single one looked perfect but some, not all, had been near something damp or wet and sounded terribly noisy. Do yours have a cloudy appearance at all? Some of the ones I found did, but otherwise, there was nothing to tell of the moisture damage, no grainy appearance, nothing.

Just trying to shed some light here and share my experience with these, I've had to work with some pretty bad examples of these when I did work on CD reissues and Columbias can be a real challenge.

Sean