eBay & PayPal

[Raphael]

About two months ago I sold a Columbia AT on eBay to a new Chinese customer. I promptly shipped it according to the listing by Priority Mail, with tracking, & signature required. After I shipped, the buyer requested that I declare a lower value and state that the contents would be "old newspapers". Since it had already been shipped, there was no way to comply with his request, even if I had wanted to.

After showing up in China, it was delayed in Customs because the buyer didn't want to pay the duty. He even sent me a message through eBay complaining about the value, etc. and again asking me for false documentation.

Now, nearly two months after buying the item, he is telling eBay & PayPal "Item Not Received". Naturally, it requires him to pay the duty in order to receive it. Nor has he directed the post office to return the package to me.

I had a long conversation with eBay and PayPal yesterday. eBay is sympathetic but PayPal's position is that they will refund the money (they have already removed it from my account) since the buyer didn't receive the item. No amount of explaining that everything I did was by the book, above board, and correct, and the buyer is the one responsible for the item not being received.

And once he gets his refund, he is then free to take delivery of the package and I am totally at a loss for the item and the shipping costs.

Granted, this is a rare occurrence, but gives me pause to think about future methodology when selling on eBay.

Raphael

[52089]

I definitely sympathize. I'm sure you already know that these days, virtually every eBay listing has language stating that the customs duties are the buyer's responsibility, that the item will be declared for full value, and that paperwork will not be falsified for any reason. Many sellers also refuse to ship to specific countries due to frequent "lost" packages.

I have found one way to at least partially guard against PayPal taking back money is that I do not keep a PayPal balance. Money is transferred to the associated bank account almost immediately, and once it is there, it is transferred to another account that is not accessible to PayPal. This may not be practical for you because you are mostly using a business account, but it might be worth a try.

And of course with your experience you probably already know everything I've said here, but I'm sure there are others on the board who don't and who could benefit from having this spelled out.

[TinfoilPhono]

I had a very similar incident with a phonograph I sold to a Chinese buyer a few years ago. Not only did Paypal refund his money from my account, despite all the documentation proving without question that I did everything by the book, but the buyer turned around and left me a negative feedback calling me a "deceiver". I tried to get that removed by eBay since it was so obviously unjustified by documented facts but they said "feedback is a buyer's opinion, we can't remove it."

I no longer ship to China.

As for pulling your money out of the Paypal account so they can't yank it back, that's fine if you never intend to use Paypal again, for buying or selling. If there's zero balance in your account when they go to refund something, they put your balance into negative. Your account is locked until you bring it out of the red.

[52089]

As for pulling your money out of the Paypal account so they can't yank it back, that's fine if you never intend to use Paypal again, for buying or selling. If there's zero balance in your account when they go to refund something, they put your balance into negative. Your account is locked until you bring it out of the red.

That would all depend on how many PayPal accounts one has, wouldn't it?

[Panatropia]

A similar misfortune with the Clever Chinese befell me with a rather expensive camera. Fortunately I withdrew my funds from PayPal several days previously so I did not mind sacrificing that detestable account, which eBay compels you to use. How much simpler when money orders and wire transfers were the preferred means of payment.

[estott]

A similar misfortune with the Clever Chinese befell me with a rather expensive camera. Fortunately I withdrew my funds from PayPal several days previously so I did not mind sacrificing that detestable account, which eBay compels you to use. How much simpler when money orders and wire transfers were the preferred means of payment.

Speaking as a seller, perhaps. As a buyer and occasional seller I have less than fond memories of waiting for the post office to deliver payment, and waiting for that payment to clear - and no fond memories at all of standing in line to get a money order

[Raphael]

China has been the source of a great deal of business for me, not just phonographs, but music boxes, singing bird boxes, clocks, etc. Eliminating the market because of one or two bad apples is not an option.

But it still galls me having to forfeit over $1,000 due to this buyer's arrogance. I am thinking of telling him that I will report him to Chinese Customs authorities for his written request that I provide false documentation. That might put a scare into him and get him to do the right thing.


Raphael

[Valecnik]

China has been the source of a great deal of business for me, not just phonographs, but music boxes, singing bird boxes, clocks, etc. Eliminating the market because of one or two bad apples is not an option.

But it still galls me having to forfeit over $1,000 due to this buyer's arrogance. I am thinking of telling him that I will report him to Chinese Customs authorities for his written request that I provide false documentation. That might put a scare into him and get him to do the right thing.


Raphael

Might not be a bad idea!

[billybob62]

Hi Raphael,

Do it. Do not think about it. Don't let that sumbitch get away with stealing from you.

Make copies of all correspondence and documents and have them notarized for authenticity and challenge that buyer.

People in China get shot for doing things like that

Please do not hesitate.

John

[epigramophone]

As I am only an occasional seller on eBay I cannot be bothered with the hassle of posting items abroad, even though this might result in a higher selling price. Every listing includes the words "PLEASE NOTE THAT I DO NOT POST OUTSIDE THE UK" and just to make certain, my seller preferences are set to block any bids from outside the UK.

When posting items I follow UK eBay guidelines and always use a signed for service giving proof of delivery.

Even so, I still sometimes get questions from abroad such as "how much to post to Alpha Centauri?"