eBay & PayPal

[Panatropia]

As I am only an occasional seller on eBay I cannot be bothered with the hassle of posting items abroad, even though this might result in a higher selling price. Every listing includes the words "PLEASE NOTE THAT I DO NOT POST OUTSIDE THE UK" and just to make certain, my seller preferences are set to block any bids from outside the UK.

When posting items I follow UK eBay guidelines and always use a signed for service giving proof of delivery.

Even so, I still sometimes get questions from abroad such as "how much to post to Alpha Centauri?"

Are we to take it that you would not even ship something to a fellow collector across the pond?

[epigramophone]

For a collector in the USA or Canada, whether or not a member of this forum, I would probably make an exception.

I have, however, seen many items on USA eBay noted "Does not ship to the UK", so it cuts both ways.

[gramophone-georg]

About two months ago I sold a Columbia AT on eBay to a new Chinese customer. I promptly shipped it according to the listing by Priority Mail, with tracking, & signature required. After I shipped, the buyer requested that I declare a lower value and state that the contents would be "old newspapers". Since it had already been shipped, there was no way to comply with his request, even if I had wanted to.

After showing up in China, it was delayed in Customs because the buyer didn't want to pay the duty. He even sent me a message through eBay complaining about the value, etc. and again asking me for false documentation.

Now, nearly two months after buying the item, he is telling eBay & PayPal "Item Not Received". Naturally, it requires him to pay the duty in order to receive it. Nor has he directed the post office to return the package to me.

I had a long conversation with eBay and PayPal yesterday. eBay is sympathetic but PayPal's position is that they will refund the money (they have already removed it from my account) since the buyer didn't receive the item. No amount of explaining that everything I did was by the book, above board, and correct, and the buyer is the one responsible for the item not being received.

And once he gets his refund, he is then free to take delivery of the package and I am totally at a loss for the item and the shipping costs.

Granted, this is a rare occurrence, but gives me pause to think about future methodology when selling on eBay.

Raphael

This is a typical scam known as a "customs hanger"- they claim "Item Not Received" when it's in Customs, and Paypal or eBay will back them every time.

As soon as they get their refund, they go pick up their item.

eBay and the Pal are fully aware that this goes on but they claim that there is nothing they can do. They are fully aiding and abetting this scam, and they know it.

First, check with the carrier and see if there is a way to recall the parcel, or direct Customs to NOT release it. Probably not, but worth a shot.

Second, file mail fraud reports with the USPS and IC3. Get copies of the reports and forward them to eBay/ PayPal when they decide in the buyer's favor and APPEAL IT.

If all this fails, I'd contact your local media and give them all the info. Maybe they'll run a story on it and shame eBay/ PayPal into making you whole.

Good luck- every eBay seller that has ever been burned by this feels your pain.

[gramophone-georg]

Note that even if you used another carrier besides USPS, file with them anyways because they consider similar fraud committed with any carrier to be a federal postal crime.

[estott]

As I am only an occasional seller on eBay I cannot be bothered with the hassle of posting items abroad, even though this might result in a higher selling price. Every listing includes the words "PLEASE NOTE THAT I DO NOT POST OUTSIDE THE UK" and just to make certain, my seller preferences are set to block any bids from outside the UK.

When posting items I follow UK eBay guidelines and always use a signed for service giving proof of delivery.

Even so, I still sometimes get questions from abroad such as "how much to post to Alpha Centauri?"

I have in the past refused to sell abroad, but the last time I did some selling (a number of wrist and pocket watches) I did take advantage of an Ebay feature: I sent the package to a specified US address & Ebay remailed it to my UK buyer. It was very convenient & saved me the trouble of filling out paperwork, but I would only use it for small items of minor value. The cost was very reasonable- I suspect they group items into a bulk shipment which saves them money.

[Raphael]

UPDATE: The saga continues. I twice threatened to notify China Customs authorities, and then I actually did file a claim with USPS advising them that the addressee was refusing to clear the item through customs because I would not declare a false value. Maybe it was a coincidence, but he emailed me today and said he had now received the item. BUT, that it was broken, and a repair shop had quoted him $600 for the repair (more than the value of the machine). I told him to file an insurance claim or return the item for repair, I was not going to entertain this nonsense. He is now claiming that there is "no insurance in China" (untrue, China Post must cooperate with USPS).

I wonder how the PayPal and/or eBay gods are going to handle this, now that the dispute has changed from "item not received" to "received damaged".

Raphael

[52089]

UPDATE: The saga continues. I twice threatened to notify China Customs authorities, and then I actually did file a claim with USPS advising them that the addressee was refusing to clear the item through customs because I would not declare a false value. Maybe it was a coincidence, but he emailed me today and said he had now received the item. BUT, that it was broken, and a repair shop had quoted him $600 for the repair (more than the value of the machine). I told him to file an insurance claim or return the item for repair, I was not going to entertain this nonsense. He is now claiming that there is "no insurance in China" (untrue, China Post must cooperate with USPS).

I wonder how the PayPal and/or eBay gods are going to handle this, now that the dispute has changed from "item not received" to "received damaged".

Raphael

Ask for pictures, including a photo of the serial number. I had to do this once when an ebay seller wouldn't ship something to me, realistically because it sold too cheap, but supposedly because it had become "damaged". Once I requested pictures, they magically found another "undamaged" item to send me.

[gramophone-georg]

UPDATE: The saga continues. I twice threatened to notify China Customs authorities, and then I actually did file a claim with USPS advising them that the addressee was refusing to clear the item through customs because I would not declare a false value. Maybe it was a coincidence, but he emailed me today and said he had now received the item. BUT, that it was broken, and a repair shop had quoted him $600 for the repair (more than the value of the machine). I told him to file an insurance claim or return the item for repair, I was not going to entertain this nonsense. He is now claiming that there is "no insurance in China" (untrue, China Post must cooperate with USPS).

I wonder how the PayPal and/or eBay gods are going to handle this, now that the dispute has changed from "item not received" to "received damaged".

Raphael

Is this a PayPal claim or an eBay claim?

[Raphael]

Right now, it's with PayPal, and they removed the money from my account pending resolution. But they have complete access to eBay data, whom they have an incestuous relationship with.

Raphael

[billybob62]

Hi Raphael,
Perhaps a phone call to PayPal explaining the situation personally, letting them know, of course, that you are a quality seller and beyond reproach in your community, would turn the trick.
John