No... It's an Edison Victrola!

[OrthoFan]

I was out for a walk today, on one of the few sunny warm days we've had lately in San Francisco, and I noticed a garage sale across the street with what looked to be a Victrola cabinet. The sun was in my eyes, so I crossed the street for a better look, and could see, close up, that it was a small sideboard cabinet, with the legs cut off.

A young man -- circa early 30s -- stepped out of the garage and asked me if I was interested in it. I said, no, and told him that I mistook it for a Victrola cabinet from across the street.

He said, "oh, I DO have a Victrola for sale, but it's not here. It's an Edison Victrola."

I asked him, "do you mean Victor Victrola? Or is it an Edison Diamond Disk phonograph? Or possibly an Edison Amberola?"

He said, "no, it's definitely an Edison Victrola. It's made by Thomas Edison."

The rest of our conversation went something like this:

Me: "Actually, Edison didn't make Victrolas. Victrola was a trademarked name for internal horn models manufactured only by the Victor Talk--"

Young Man: "Yes he DID! It says 'Edison Victrola' right on a metal plate inside the cabinet. I've looked at it many times! It also says it was made in 1897."

Me: "Well, that may be what you remember seeing, but if it says 'Victrola' on the plate, it should also say 'Victor Talking Machine C--"

Young Man: "No! It say's EDISON VICTROLA right on the plate. I've looked at it many times. I also did some research about it, and found out it was made by Edison in 1897."

Me: "But the first Victrola didn't hit the market until 1906, and that was manufactured by the Victor Talking Mach--"

Young Man: "No! This was definitely manufactured by Edison in 1897. I did some research and there's a website with a whole list of models, and the first ones came out in the late 1800s."

Me: "Okay.... Anyway, what does it say on the reproducer--the place where you insert the needle?"

Young Man: "I don't know. It's not there. It doesn't have the parts. Only the cabinet. All I know is that this Victrola was made in 1897 by Thomas Edison. It has a hole for a crank, and space for where the horn and motor was."

Me: "Oh, this is an empty cabinet?"

Young Man: "Yes. I'm gonna make a bar out of it."

Me: "Well, if it's an empty cabinet, I wouldn't be interested. Good luck with your project," (walking away very fast.)

...sure'd love to know what website he was talking about. All these years in the hobby, and I never knew that Victor stole their idea for a Victrola from Edison........

OF

[Curt A]

Must be the same website used by eBay sellers for research...

[Phonofreak]

I love having dialogue with clueless people like that. Especially when you try to enlighten them. It brings great entertainment on an otherwise humdrum day
Harvey Kravitz

[Benjamin_L]

I once got into a very long conversation with an Antique dealer in Franklin(TN), he had a Starr upright but the lid was from a Victrola. He kept insisting it was original to the machine, while I kept trying to tell him that they were from separate companies and were "married" at one point. It lasted for quite awhile but he was kind and understanding.

As a younger collector I don't have as much bearing as someone older, so it can be hard to share information and be seen professionally.

[OrthoFan]

As a younger collector I don't have as much barging as someone older, so it can be hard to share information and be seen professionally.

Sometimes, just the opposite is true. I'm 58, but have been told, on a good day, I could easily pass for 75. (Unlike certain politicians, etc., I refuse to die my white hair yellow. )

I only posted the "jist" of the conversation, above, but one of the things I remember trying to tell the man was that the word, "victrola," became a general term for all enclosed horn cabinet model record players, muck like "Kleenex" is for "paper handkerchief," but that the Victor Talking Machine company was the only manufacturer that used the word "Victrola" on their products. Saying Edison Victrola is like saying you own a Chevy Ford. His reaction was to state, emphatically, that "no, the metal plate says Edison Victrola."

I'd guess the young man thought I was just some senile old fart who didn't know what he was talking about.

It reminded me of a similar incident that took place about a year ago. I spotted a late 1920s HMV 109 ( http://www.gramophones.info/gramophones.hmv.109.html ) in an antiques shop. It was identified as a circa 1910 picnic gramophone. I told the shop owner a little about it, when it was produced, etc. He stared at me blankly for a few seconds and said, "do you want to buy it?" I said, "no but--" He said, "then don't worry about it."

Here's the machine in question, still for sale, and still misidentified: http://www.mccarneysfurniture.com/produ ... ne-c-1910/ (I might add, still overpriced, considering the fact that it's in non-working average to poor condition.)

OF

[Phonofreak]

With that antique dealer's attitude, that machine will sit in the shop for a very long time. I have had the same experiences with antique dealers, too. If it was in decent condition, and working, it wouldn't be too bad of a price.
Harvey Kravitz

[edisonplayer]

Some people call all of them victrolas.My friends refer to me as "The guy who collects victrolas."edisonplayer

[Victrolacollector]

Oh yes, very classic....thanks for sharing. I had that kind of dialogue with some antique dealers. They think their machine is worth alot because it is badged Edison or Victrola, even when they are missing parts or in poor condition.

One dealer told me they are very old and delicate, people do not use them anymore, cant get parts anymore and and she pursed her lips, and then proceeded to tell me she wanted 800.00 for the machine. Edison H-19 that was missing the crank, rigged up nail or pin in the reproducer where the stylus is supposed to go, and a Capital record on the turntable in beautiful royal purple label.

[Wolfe]

So.

I bet a lot of you phono collector guys / chicks could wade into another collector's hobby and commit the same sort of faux paus.

"Oh, you didn't know that a postage stamp isn't always called a postage stamp, did you ?"

[OrthoFan]

So.

I bet a lot of you phono collector guys / chicks could wade into another collector's hobby and commit the same sort of faux paus.

"Oh, you didn't know that a postage stamp isn't always called a postage stamp, did you ?"

That's a good point. In fact, when the young man first said "Edison Victrola," I thought he meant Edison "victrola" used in the generic sense--a term which I've heard many non-collectors, as well as collectors use.

It wasn't until he insisted that the metal manufacturer's plate which he said was attached inside the cabinet specifically stated "Edison Victrola" that I knew something was wrong. I even wondered briefly if it might have been a fake with a phony metal ID plate, but I haven't seen too many large cabinet model crap-o-phones.

In the final analysis, I think what bothered me wasn't the fact that what he said was something I knew wasn't true, but the fact that his mind was absolutely closed to any other possibility.

As for other hobbies I know nothing about, after a few hard knocks, I've learned the golden rule -- "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."