difference between a standard d or c mandrel

[tomb]

I brought a standard C plate and want to restore it. Does the standard d mandrel fit in the standard c plate. ?? Do I need to purchase a standard c mandrel ??? I know the gears are not the same for the standard C as they are only two minute. I can put some d gears in it and make it a 2/4. The end bearing might be different?? Did people convert the two minute C to a 2/4 minute C ??? I will probably photo the conversion. I understand the case can be a model B case or a model d case. Thanks for the Info After this I might restore a standard A 2 or 4 clip and photo. it... It depends on how I feel as it is a little rough now Tom B

[52089]

The Model C Edison Standard is a fairly scarce machine. They are most commonly found in a version used by the International Correspondence School for use with language cylinders. The ICS machines have a repeater mechanism and an exposed bedplate control that other Model C machines do not have. It is quite difficult to find a Model C that does not have those features.

You are correct that the Model C machines all started out as 2 minute machines. However, the standard 2/4 upgrade kit that works on models A and B also works on model C. The only Model C machine I have ever owned was upgraded this way. You can see it here:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =+featured

I can't specifically comment on the interchangeability of the parts between models C and later. Because of the scarcity of the Model C, my advice to you would be to keep it as close to original as possible.

[tomb]

The plate does not have the hole for the speed control screw so this would be a non ICS machine or just a regular C machine. This is what it will become... The S/N on the plate is 741471 if that helps anyone.. This will become a two minute machine but the holes on the side that has the mandrel bearing has a lot of holes that will take different gears. It looks like it can be turned into a D or higher standard. Question???? Did any C machines have the D gears for a 2/4 setup. I have a 2/4 conversion I for a Standard B I can install also. When I get the plate I will send pics but it was a recent E bay auction item. It definitely will become a Standard C only since it is the rarer of the two.. Thanks for the link it was informative,,Tom B

[FellowCollector]

I have owned at least six Edison Standard model C phonographs over the years. I traded three of them and have kept three in the collection. Interestingly, only two of them were ICS equipped. One of which in the later (D,E,F) cabinet and one in the B cabinet. Both as I recall have the later D,E,F bed plate striping. Only one of my model C phonographs (non-ICS one) had been converted to 2/4 minute at the time I purchased it. An interesting aspect that I had found on at least two or three of the six model C Standards I've owned was that they each had a mandrel shaft that was rounded at the end like the end of a bullet (???). Its purpose seems to be lost in time as I did not observe nor could I come up with any rationale for the shaft end being rounded like that. My remaining three model C Standards are stored away in closets here so I cannot easily get at them for pictures but I always thought that was odd. I am, however, confident that the mandrel shafts were factory manufactured and equipped on those model C's. The non-ICS model C phonographs do not have the top mounted speed control as expected. Also of interest (to me anyway) was that BOTH of the ICS model C's had seized mandrels due to the pot metal bearing as commonly found in almost all D,E,F Edison models but the non-ICS model C's still have their original bearings and free-rotating mandrels.

I've also found it interesting that while I have owned six Edison Standard model C phonographs over the years I have found (and still own) only a precious ONE Edison Home model C phonograph. Why? Pricing too high for contemporary customers? Unlikely. Far fewer Edison Home model C's produced? Likely. But why so few (versus the Standard model)?

Doug

[tomb]

I now have all Edison standard models from the two clip standards to a couple of standard Fs with the exception of a standard ICS D.. In the process and enjoyment I have multi copies of the common ones. The only home EDISONS I am missing is a Home C and a Home F. I will try to get one or two next year after Xmas. The standard C seems like such an odd ball machine that was developed to be there future platform. With the holes predrilled in the base plate it looks like it could be set up for a D,E,and F.. The rounded edge mandrel I will look into. I have several other machines and I can pull the mandrel out for inspection. That will be a rainy day project because I will have to readjust all the machines ..
It will be fun restoring this machine. I can use a standard B case or a standard D case which one I can find that is nice. I imagine any of the motors will work.
I have an ICS standard C that was Cygnet horn adapted. I figure the owner must have done it as I do not think it was a factory option. It is what it is and I can not undo it unless I put it in a new case and move the tag . Then I would have a case with tag holes in it. I guess I can buy another cygnet horn and add it too. Thanks for the info Doug.. Tom B

[FellowCollector]

You're very welcome, Tom. The Edison Home model D will be fairly easy to find. The Edison Home model C will definitely be a real challenge to find. I searched for more than 20 years before finding mine. I will always kick myself in the butt every time I recall passing on a beautiful original Home model C at the Bouckville antique show in 1991 or 1992 that a dealer was just bringing out of his truck. I never saw another for sale more than 20 years after. Live and learn.

The rounded edge mandrel I will look into. I have several other machines and I can pull the mandrel out for inspection.

As a gentle clarification, there were no rounded edge metal mandrels for any Edison external horn phonograph that I'm aware of. Occasionally you will find Edison Amberola 30, 50 and 75 models with the rounded edge mandrels but not on the external horn models. In my post above I was referring to two of my Edison Standard model C's that have a mandrel shaft that was curiously rounded (or bullet shaped) on the end of the shaft where it contacts the bearing on the gear cluster casting. If I can dig out one of my Standard model C's with that rounded shaft end I'll post a picture.

Doug

[martinola]

Hi Tom.
I did a little poking about on my database regarding case types used on the Standard Model C.

It looks like #621061 thru #679346 are all the Tall style cases.

Those machines from #681828 thru #728451 are a mix of Tall and Late style cases. Out of 30 examples, only 7 have Late style cases (and those are mostly in the higher serial numbers).

The rest of the machines - #728479 thru #819650 all have Late style cases.

I'm not sure if this will help you, but I thought I'd mention it. Good luck with your restoration!
Regards,
Martin

[rhammond]

I have an Edison Home Model C that I purchased at a farm auction probably 35 years ago. This machine came out of the attic of the original owners. This one was a 2/4 and it had a black cygnet and horizontal carriage. There was a slant carriage in the bottom of the box. My guess with this machine is that the original owners bought it with the upgrade. The original records were almost all 4 minute black wax with a handful of blue amberols.

The box looks like a B box, the top plate looks like a D plate. The 2/4 clutch is the same as on a D and above. It is not the earlier conversion device with the lever. It also does not have a decal for the 2/4 so it may have been something that the original dealer upgraded to sell the machine.

The family must have had an earlier phonograph as there were three boxed sets of Columbia brown wax cylinders in near mint condition. They never played on this machine and some of them are the 120 rpm. The auctioneer broke several of them but I did buy about 80 really nice ones that day. This machine and the brown wax are still in my collection at present.

[tomb]

thanks for the information Martinola and Rhammond. The higher percentage seems to be a tall case but could go for a later case too. I am leaning to the tall case. So many options will make this easier. I was referring to the shaft on the mandrel too. I seem to remember a rounded mandrel shaft on one of my standards but I did not note it at the time. It could be on the C I have too. For some reason the mail person did not deliver any packages today so photos will come tomorrow if it arrives. The photos on E bay give the appearance that the striping is in good shape..I live on a rural route so the carries are sometimes a little temperamental. I was out of town late too helping my wife. I re read Martinola and it looks like it actually needs a late case. Tom B