The Musical Four from Paterson, NJ

[luke68]

https://archive.org/details/IMG0988

Interesting estate sale find from Thursday. Supposedly a photo of a Paterson NJ jazz band circa 1914. They were called the Musical Four and the cornet player on the right is named Billy Bartow.

Anyone have any additional information, etc? I think a brass ensemble or marching ensemble seems more viable with two cornets, a trombone and a drummer.

[Wolfe]

I'd like to know about the ca. 1914 date. Seems like it should be a few years beyond that.

[luke68]

The homeowner's grandmother was Billy Bartow's sister; the homeowner provided the information that I have posted so not sure of the legitimacy. 1914 seems too early for a Jazz band in Paterson NJ (even if it is outside of NYC). Perhaps the clothing can provide more accuracy on date but I don't know how to do that.

[gramophone-georg]

Jazz was around way before the first jazz records were issued in 1917...

[Wolfe]

Jazz was around way before the first jazz records were issued in 1917...

For a group of white boys in Paterson, NJ, ca. 1914, to form a jazz band- not bloody likely ! But further evidence is open to be considered in this matter, if just for fun...

[gramophone-georg]

Jazz was around way before the first jazz records were issued in 1917...

For a group of white boys in Paterson, NJ, ca. 1914, to form a jazz band- not bloody likely ! But further evidence is open to be considered in this matter, if just for fun...

Not likely, but not impossible, either. Jazz didn't just suddenly happen one day, just as rock and roll didn't. The roots both go further back than ODJB or The Crew Cuts famous recording sessions. In fact, Sousa, Prince, and Pryor... all white guys, by the way, were recording sides Rust considers as worthy of inclusion in his American Jazz Discography as early as the 1890s. It's arguable, in fact, whether it was actually Charles A. Prince who recorded the first jazz records... Prince's Band recorded Handy's "St Louis Blues" in 1915, and recorded Memphis Blues in 1914- and this was the second time this W.C. Handy tune was recorded; the first was a week earlier by the Victor Military Band. It's entirely plausible that these guys in Paterson were playing this style of music in 1914. Prince also recorded "High Society" in 1911 and "That's A Plenty" in 1914. Victor and Columbia were headquartered on or near the East Coast in those days, so yes, jazz was alive and well among white folks there even if they didn't know exactly what it was yet. Ragtime became jazz just like R&B became rockabilly and rock 'n' roll.

[Wolfe]

In simple terms, ragtime and the blues became jazz. R & B and jump blues and country merged into rock & roll.

You're other points on jazz development are certainly valid. It was a nebulous time musically in the mid-teens / post war. The word "jazz" is said have first entered the lexicon in 1912.

I don't think the Crew Cuts are considered that important in early rock & roll, not in the United States, anyway. Sure they had some hits in the early 50's, and they were white guys covering R & B tunes, but that doesn't make them especially significant. Perhaps more so in their native Canada, or the U.K.

[gramophone-georg]

In simple terms, ragtime and the blues became jazz. R & B and jump blues and country merged into rock & roll.

You're other points on jazz development are certainly valid. It was a nebulous time musically in the mid-teens / post war. The word "jazz" is said have first entered the lexicon in 1912.

I don't think the Crew Cuts are considered that important in early rock & roll, not in the United States, anyway. Sure they had some hits in the early 50's, and they were white guys covering R & B tunes, but that doesn't make them especially significant. Perhaps more so in their native Canada, or the U.K.

The Crew Cuts "Sh-Boom" was considered for decades to be "the first" rock n roll record to reach the Top Ten on the pop charts. I'd say that is significant... it's the first example of this genre to cross over from the R&B charts and influenced all that follows. Your mileage may vary.