Edison Idelia (Really!) On ShopGoodwill (It's Back..)

[Curt A]

I would NEVER ship anything by UPS, unless it was worthless to begin with... I think they "test" each package with their Hi-Lo before shipping.

Three years ago, a guy asked me about a Fairy Phonograph lamp that was on eBay for a reasonable price... It was found in an attic and was complete except for the reproducer. The seller took it to UPS to have it "professionally" packed and explained that it was fragile.

When it arrived, the box was marked "FRAGILE - THIS END UP", but the idiot who packed it put it in the box upside down, didn't remove the arms or the motor and it arrived with the arms bent, the body dented and the wooden horn inside the body was in pieces. Luckily, the seller insured it, but it looked like it was totaled... I suggested that he make a deal with UPS to reimburse him for the machine and then buy it back as salvage, which he did.

We were able to straighten the arms and take the dents out and since I had an original with a good horn, I made a replacement horn for him... It was worth bringing it back from the dead and is now on display in his home... ONLY by chance, since parts for those things are impossible to find and a pattern for the horn would be difficult to come by...

[Raphael]

Rene, Curt, Joe: thanks for the words of advice, but believe me, this is not my first rodeo. We all have our horror stories. One of the biggest obstacles I face in this business is incoming stuff. I've got a number of clients around the world who ask me to bid on auction items for them, knowing that what's difficult for me is almost impossible for them. The worries start right at the auction house and end at my doorstep.

I bought this Idealia on behalf of a very well-known client, one of the world's biggest collectors. You probably all know him, but he wishes to remain anonymous.

To begin with, Goodwill quoted $27.53 for shipping. That tells me they have no clue what to do. I spoke to several nearby UPS Stores, and interviewed their managers. I then selected one who I thought had a "YES" attitude and was willing to follow my instructions exactly.

Just getting the phonograph collected from Goodwill has taken all week. They have more terms and conditions than most government agencies.

Today I will talk with the UPS Store manager and guide him through the packing process.

And, if all else fails, there is full insurance to back this up, that is only available for antiques when The UPS Store does the packing. Of course, we don't want damage to happen, but about 98% of my UPS Store shipments have arrived safely. And those that haven't resulted in quick and easy claims settlement with full restitution.

Raphael

[Skihawx]

Good thing insurance covers everything. After all it is only an Idealia.

[Ripduf1]

Hi Raphael,
A word of caution regarding UPS and its horrible business practices. I had bought a half barrel herzog cabinet from an antiques store that was two doors down from a UPS store. What could be better? They were kind enough to bring it over to UPS, I paid UPS Store to ship and insure to me and when I received it it was broken. It had been dropped and the foot drove that corner of the cabinet "north" and pushed the top off, the door then came off its hinge and the base broke into pieces. But that is not the point....I opened an insurance claim and UPS corporate ruled that it was improperly packed! As such they would not provide payment for the damage. The UPS store is a franchise and treated no differently than if you or I packed it. In my case the insurance fell back to the store owners own insurance policy that carried a high deductible and they ended up paying me out of pocket for the damage after about 6 months of haggling. The cabinet was picked up and dissappeared. - a colossal waste of time, effort and goodwill. It sounds like you have had good luck with UPS, I for one, will try to NEVER use UPS again.

The point is the UPS store better have there own substantial insurance because the insurance policy holder (UPS corporate ) will try to wiggle out of their responsibility and eat their own young (franchisees - the UPS Store owners) should there be an issue. Good Luck.

See you around,
John

[Raphael]

Good thing insurance covers everything. After all it is only an Idealia.

I really don't know how to take this comment. I've explained the process that I am going through to ensure proper packing. It would be a shame if anything is broken in transit, despite my best efforts. Even if I flew to Wisconsin and drove the Idealia home, there are still risks involved. Insurance is something one never hopes to use but it's there to alleviate the pain when all else fails.

Raphael

[Raphael]

Hi Raphael,
A word of caution regarding UPS and its horrible business practices. I had bought a half barrel herzog cabinet from an antiques store that was two doors down from a UPS store. What could be better? They were kind enough to bring it over to UPS, I paid UPS Store to ship and insure to me and when I received it it was broken. It had been dropped and the foot drove that corner of the cabinet "north" and pushed the top off, the door then came off its hinge and the base broke into pieces. But that is not the point....I opened an insurance claim and UPS corporate ruled that it was improperly packed! As such they would not provide payment for the damage. The UPS store is a franchise and treated no differently than if you or I packed it. In my case the insurance fell back to the store owners own insurance policy that carried a high deductible and they ended up paying me out of pocket for the damage after about 6 months of haggling. The cabinet was picked up and dissappeared. - a colossal waste of time, effort and goodwill. It sounds like you have had good luck with UPS, I for one, will try to NEVER use UPS again.

The point is the UPS store better have there own substantial insurance because the insurance policy holder (UPS corporate ) will try to wiggle out of their responsibility and eat their own young (franchisees - the UPS Store owners) should there be an issue. Good Luck.

See you around,
John

Hi John

Sorry to hear about your experiences but mine have been quite the opposite. In the past 13 years, I've had 5 claims against goods shipped to me by a UPS Store, and each has been handled promptly and paid in full. The claims ranged from $1,100 to $15,000.

I do try to put everything clearly in writing to the UPS Store when I confirm the arrangements. They cannot claim to have insurance and then deny it when damage occurs, it would actually be a criminal offense, and they know it.

I also had a $12,000 claim with PakMail, who tried to deny it. Took me 6 months, but I prevailed. Don't forget, they take credit cards and engage in interstate commerce, and don't want to have things like this come back to bite them in the ass.

My wife's cousin worked for UPS for years, she told me (off the record, of course) that UPS trains their claims agents to do one thing only: DENY. The only way to get a major claim approved is to go up two or three levels.


Raphael

[MicaMonster]

More unsolicited advice: Have one of your phono friends pick it up on their way to Stantons and get it from them there. The only way I let UPS ship me $$$ machines is boxed on a wooden pallet via freight. Anything less is too risky. UPS STORE doesn't employ engineers. You need to send a HARD COPY of your packing instructions. Verbal on phone won't work.

[Raphael]

Wyatt, I've commented many times on the Forum how palletized freight is highly prefereable to package express. I ship (inbound and outbound) virtually every day of the week. There are no set rules. What works for a Mills Violano wouldn't apply to an Edison Gem.

Raphael

[Phonofreak]

I see that this discussion is evolving into a UPS discussion, but here is my 3 cents worth. The last time I bought a phonograph using UPS was a nightmare. That was several years ago. It was an Oxford version of the Columbia BKT. The seller I bought it from was packed very well. When I got it, the carriage was busted up, and the box was banged up. It looked like the Sansomite Gorilla had it's way with the package. I told him about it, and we started a claim. I wanted to put in a claim for the purchase of a carriage. UPS wanted me to turn in the machine to get a claim for the whole thing.The customer service was very rude and poor. These are pretty scarce and unusual machines, especially in a 2/4 min. configuration. The seller really went all out to help me out. He contacted George Vollema who had that part. He bought the carriage from George, and had it sent to me by 2 day Priority mail. That's what I called super service. When I buy a machine, I make sure they use the PO or FEDEX. The most recent bad experience I had with UPS, was a model train I bought. I never got it. When I went to UPS to do a tracer, I got the same nasty, rude customer service like I got several years ago. I contacted the seller and he gave me an immediate refund on my card. He also told me that he had bad dealings with UPS and will never deal with them anymore. Needles to say, I gave both of these sellers verify high feedback, praising their honesty and high business ethics. No way will I ever deal with UPS.
Harvey Kravitz

[TinfoilPhono]

For what it's worth: I insure my collection through Collectibles Insurance Group (www.collectinsure.com). One of their benefits is that they cover insurance on items in transit to me, or from me. That's pretty significant. But: there are (inevitably) some caveats. They will insure anything through USPS, Fedex, or commercial freight, as long as it is sent with signature required. They will NOT insure anything at all sent by UPS.

That speaks volumes to me. Obviously they have learned through bitter experience.

Many years ago I used UPS routinely in my business. I never had a problem with damage, but I was shipping watches which are small and easy to safely pack. But I did have a (relatively) high percentage of outright losses. To their credit, they would pay on those claims extremely quickly. But there was no question involved -- tracking showed the package(s) disappeared entirely. Damage leaves a lot of room for discussion.

I dropped them due to losses and high costs, and switched to USPS. In the 10 years I used the post office before I retired and closed my business I had exactly zero losses and zero damage claims. Compared to the 2-3 losses per year I had with UPS that is an astonishing record.

I have also used Fedex quite a lot, including internationally, and have had zero problems.