PHONAUTOGRAPH

[Raphael]

This item was purchased at Stanton's April, 2011 auction by the late William Zenga ("Dr. Z"). His estate has asked me to assist them in selling it. But before I can do that, I need more information and perhaps some of the knowledgeable members of this forum can fill me in.

To begin with, it is known as a "PHONAUTOGRAPH" and background information can be obtained by Googling that name. Supposedly, it was invented in the 1850's, as a device to record sound modulations. The large "barrel" was meant to capture sound like a human ear, and transmit it through to what appears to be a tinfoil phonograph. It was never intended to actually play back these "recordings", but modern technology has developed means to learn what he actually did record, including a brief song.

The Stanton sales invoice states that this was acquired from a defunct museum and that it was made in 1857. I think this is actually a well-made replica, missing some vital parts as well.

Does anybody know the origin of this piece? The museum that it came from? Anything else?

Thanks,

Raphael

[gramophone78]

I believe there was a discussion regarding one of these (if not this very one) when it came up for auction. The auction house changed their "possible original" description to "reproduction".

This machine was made by the late Norm Solgas of California (circa 1960's). You can see it on the left of the photo. He and his Father made a few of them and some is artistic guesswork on their part.

I don't think it sold for too much. There have been far better (accurate) copies made by others since.

Note...the Phonautograph, tin foil and Berliner hand-wind in the photo are repros made by him and the Improved Berliner is highly suspect.....so, beware what you buy and for how much... .

[phonogfp]

I don't believe the Berliner Improved Gramophone nor the Eagle Graphophone were replicas, but the rest of the pictured machines certainly were. Mr. Solgas made a number of other Tinfoil Phonographs not shown in the photo above. I've seen these machines in person, and they are terrifyingly convincing.

I agree with Wayne that the Phonautograph in question is quite likely a Solgas replica. This thread dovetails nicely with this recent one:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=27865

All you talented woodworkers and machinists out there would do our hobby a huge favor by discretely but indelibly marking your work.

George P.

[gramophone78]

I don't believe the Berliner Improved Gramophone nor the Eagle Graphophone were replicas, but the rest of the pictured machines certainly were. Mr. Solgas made a number of other Tinfoil Phonographs not shown in the photo above. I've seen these machines in person, and they are terrifyingly convincing.

I agree with Wayne that the Phonautograph in question is quite likely a Solgas replica. This thread dovetails nicely with this recent one:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=27865

All you talented woodworkers and machinists out there would do our hobby a huge favor by discretely but indelibly marking your work.

George P.

Thanks George, I corrected my post. I think the Improved Berliner is also not 100% either... .The horn and horn support wire are not Berliner.. .

improved berliner.jpg (96.3 KiB) Viewed 2888 times

[TinfoilPhono]

Unquestionably a reproduction, and not a very good one (unfortunately). It sold at Stanton's auction in early 2011. There were a number of details which identified it as a reproduction:

- The mandrel size could not have produced any known surviving phonautogram
- The screw pitch was about 8-10 to the inch rather than the much courser 1.5-2 to the inch that phonautograms require.
- As this is the 1859-1862 model the only maker could have been Koenig (as he held the license with Scott), and his maker's mark was nowhere to be seen.
- The castings and all metal work were too crude to have come from Koenig's shop.
- Léon Scott (inventor of the Phonautograph) wrote that the shaft was iron; on the reproduction, it (and other metal work) is brass.
- Scott writes that the baseboard was oak; it is pine on this machine.
- The sound-gathering assembly was secured to the base rather than simply set on top (required to allow for adjusting the angle at which the stylus met with the mandrel).
- The bolts on the reproduction have 20th century hex heads.

This machine was described in some detail a few months after the auction in an article by Allen Koenigsberg in The Sound Box (June 2011, page 22). That article described its background (made in the 60s by Norm Solgas) and had pictures showing some erroneous details such as the incorrect threads per inch.

It had been in the Drake Museum in the 70s. That collection was later sold off by Guido Severijns.

[Raphael]

Thanks to all of the respondents; you have supplied me with even more information than I had hoped for. Now, when it is offered for sale, we can accurately describe it's history.

I was at the 2011 auction when it sold for $8800, including the buyer's premium. It attracted a lot of interest, and Dr. Z was delighted to get it.

Raphael

[soundgen]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RARE-EARLIEST ... 2370860891

Be cheaper to make one yourself !

[edisonclassm]

Go Ahead! I challenge you! But make sure you keep meticulous track of your time and then multiply it by $75/hr and see if then it is cheaper then Raphael's asking price!

[Raphael]

It is listed at a price below what at least two other buyers thought it was worth a few years ago at auction. Additionally, there is a "Best Offer" opportunity. I do have to represent the best interests of Dr. Z's heirs, so I continue to believe that the asking price is a fair one.

Keep in mind that 99.99% of the world's population wouldn't pay a dime for any phonograph collectible of any kind. It's all a matter of perceived value!

Raphael