Take and mold code on Edison BA's

[JohnM]

Is there a period after the word 'PAT'D' on BA cylinders, or does that indicate 'Take 1'. I have a number of cylinders that don't appear to have any 'dot', but there is a mold number. Would someone please explain this a bit more to me? I even have a test pressing of 5313 'Kennie Wagner's Surrender' by Vernon Dalhart with no take or mold code at all.

[EdisonSquirrel]

John,


The dots represent the take and the number indicates the mold (e.g, "Pat'd...23" means take 3 and mold 23).

It would be interesting to know why you have some BAs without take or mold indicators. Perhaps take and mold were not always included on test pressings?



Rocky

[JohnM]

I only have one BA that is for certain a test pressing and that is the aforementioned 5313. It has no take or mold code, is lined with extremely white plaster, and is slightly over-sized where it won't fit into an orange box that would be correct for its time period. I'm too lazy to go downstairs and fetch it, but I'll take a photo of it and post it tomorrow. It sticks out like a sore thumb from all the others.

I do have several other BA's that have no dot, but do have a mold number. So, is 'Take 1' = no dot,
'Take 2' = one dot, 'Take 3' = two dots, etc? Or does the absence of a 'Take' dot indicate that there were no further takes -- that they got it in one take? Just wonderin'?

[hillndalefan]

I would say that if there is no dot, chances are it just did not press clearly.
Take 1 is usually [in all cases I know of] PAT'D. 1 or whatever mold number.
Take 2, PAT'D.. 5 or whatever. I believe the highest I have is a take 6, which is [... ...]. This system is also on the Wax Amberol cylinders as well, but I don't think I've ever noticed it on a 2 Minute Edison.

[gramophoneshane]

Some 2M's do have mold numbers &/or take dots.
All my cylinders up to 10,030 have no dots or numbers.
However, 10,051 up, do have take dots, but no mold numbers, so the take number must have been introduced before adding a mold number, & must have been introduced somewhere between 10,030 & 10,051.(Aug '08 & Sept'08)
My first cylinder to include a mold number is 10,357, but I dont have any 10,100 or 10,200 series to see if these have mold no's or not.

My 12,000 series have neither, & I have a couple 13,200 series that also have no dots or numbers.
All my 13,600's up, have both a take & mold number, but my 19,000's are again blank.

[SonnyPhono]

This is an interesting thread. I have a couple that I have a question about. They both have the letter "A" on them but in different positions. Here is a picture.



Any information on this?

[gramophoneshane]

Now that is interesting. I'd never seen (or noticed) this before, but after checking a small number of mine, I came across one with a "B" before Pat'd.
I thought it may have been some early variation on the take number, but as my cylinder shows, the take dots are present also. I'll have to go through the rest & see what other letters may be on them.
I also looked at my copy of 1563, but there is no "A" included on mine.
The letters must mean something...but what??

[gramophoneshane]

So far I've found another 4 cylinders with the "B" suffix, all of them flat tops & all from the British series with fairly low numbers.
Could the "A" be American & the "B" be British series, perhaps only used on the initial run of cylinders & soon done away with?

[SonnyPhono]

That's a good question. My first thought was "Before" and "After". But I like your idea better. I am definitely going to do some more research now though. I have been laying my cylinders out one by one now to go through them all specifically looking at only the PAT'D information and have finished going through the bunch that I bought most recently. I have 4 total out of the bunch all with the letter "A", only one of which has the "A" after the PAT'D. So I haven't a clue. Here are the other two I came across.




Here is the first group I looked over. Took awhile, but the time was worth it as this is pretty interesting. I will post any others I come across in the morning.

[gramophoneshane]

The only "A" prefix I have is also 1511 as above, and is mold 25!
I notice your copies are molds 23 & 24. It would be interesting to know if anyone has an earlier mold no. with the "A" prefix appearing after PAT'D, as on your copy of 1563.