Need help with a Victor cast turntable

[CMcPherson]

Jerry,
Don't take the advise of the resident hackamolestificators.

C'mon man... it's responses like yours that keep the experienced hobbyist from responding to new guys like me. I'm sure that you have valuable advice to offer but it can be done without making an effort to belittle a fellow collector.

[Mr Grumpy]

Let's all slow down and take a deep breath here. I asked for suggestions and all were given with the best intent. The suggestion to take it to a professional also had good intent. People get insulted because posts are only written word. You don't see the smile or hear the voice inflection when an adjective is used. The use of an emoji can take the edge off something that would insult with a literal interpretation. I love the Forum because we generally play nice here. Let's keep the sand in the sandbox!

Jerry Blais

Ummm.... YOU started it JERRY!!

[tomb]

The repair for me would be how much time, money, or how far I would go or mail it for a repair. Do I mickey mouse as I have done a few times with good results or would my repair detract from a very collectable item. There are a lot of experts that can be used by mailing. I have used Wyatt's to do some of my repairs because of his expertise in rebuilding reproducers etc. I try to look into the future and figure if I will regret my fix later or as someone else said is it reversible.
I find most people like positive reinforcement verses negative comments. Tom B

[Phonofreak]

I'm a little late chiming into this discussion. I ran into a situation with a small case Victor I with the straight-edged turntable. It was loose and floppy on the spindle. Why previous owners do this, I'll never understand why. I don't have access to a machine shop. The closest one is about 60 miles from where I live. I looked in my Reiss's Talking machine book to figure out a solution. I used Riess's advice, plus my own model building techniques. I used thin wall brass tubing that you can get at any good model store. The brand is K & S and comes in 12" lengths. You can get longer one, too.I brought the motor and turntable with me and matched the tubing that I needed. After you find the tubing to fit the spindle. Make sure that tubing fits in the turntable hole. if it is too sloppy, get a piece of tubing to telescope into the turntable. In my case, I was lucky. The tubing was a little loose, so I was able to telescope it for a perfect fit. I cut the pieces a little less than 1/16" of the length of the turntable nub. I used ACC to glue the tubing together. The reason it length is about 1/16'', shorter so it is non visible. The top will be covered by the felt, and you won't have to worry about a slot. Then I use ACC to hold the tubing assembly in place. This leaves a small unobtrusive repair that can be revered by using epoxy remover. I have a true running turntable and can enjoy my little Victor I.

The other point I want to make is Jerry was asking for some advise for a repair, and some good and bad comments came onboard. I don't appreciate someone's holier than thou insulting comments. If decent pos. comments can't be posted, then stay the hell out of this Forum. We are hear to help each other and be among friends. This Forum does not need this bilge.
Harvey Kravitz

[startgroove]

Any repair that is done in this case will always be detectable by some future knowledgeable collector. So, the choice becomes, do you want to impress them with the quality of the repair, or do you just want to get the machine working reliably again. All of the ideas proposed above seem sufficient to me. I'll add one more idea.

Online are all kinds of brass tubing. Find one that is the same OD as the ID of your turntable, but whose inside dimension is smaller than the spindle. Epoxy in, or press in, the tube and trim the ends. In a drill press, mount a ream that is one half thousandth of an inch larger in dia than the spindle and run the ream through to size the hole (alternately, you could ream to the exact size, but then you'll have to spend more time sizing the hole). New reams run about $15 (used ones can be had for a few dollars), and to regrind them to the proper dimension is about another $15. If the fit is too tight, use emery cloth or other finer sand paper wrapped around a dowel to help size the opening.

I performed this on a Vic 5 many years ago. My main concern was keeping the turntable true as it rotated. This repair was successful and there was no wobble of the turntable.

[phonogfp]

Russ touches on a good point, and one I'd like to second. Years ago I bought a bag of various sized brass and aluminum scrap tubing at a craft store. It might have cost ten bucks, but I can't tell you how many times it has come in handy - and not just for phonograph restoration. Having exactly what you need at your fingertips is such a great thing. Of course, it's not the same as taking the broken part to a machine shop, but nevertheless I have used this tubing - as well as sheet brass in various gauges - to make repairs and new parts that I defy anyone - ANYONE - to spot. I should point out that many of these repairs are ENTIRELY REVERSIBLE should an original part become available, so no "hacking" or "molestation" is involved.

At the request of a couple of kind Forum members, I will re-state my earlier suggestion - with the disclaimer that it probably won't result in the same quality repair as a machine shop, but it can result in a perfectly serviceable fix that is reversible and not readily observable.

Narrow shims can be cut from an aluminum soda can. (Of course one also has the option to purchase properly gauged aluminum stock and use that.) Depending on how much the original hole in the turntable was altered, one or more shims may be cut and properly placed to eliminate the unwanted lateral turntable movement. Keep in mind that a machine shop can perform a professional, quality repair to accomplish the same end.

I have added shims to two different turntables (that occur to me at the moment), and the resulting rotation was perfectly true (or as true as any Victor turntable rotates!).

In addition, I have used these soda-can shims to properly align the cast aluminum support arms of Disc Graphophones with the cast aluminum brackets that mount to the cabinets. I've seen a number of Graphophone support arms that are mis-aligned with the brackets. By cutting aluminum shims of the proper size and placing them between the flat rear surface of the support arm and the bracket, the arm is snugged into the "V" and can be adjusted properly. By cutting the shims slightly small, the repair cannot be seen. It's also ENTIRELY REVERSIBLE so no "hacking" or "molesting" is involved. Keep in mind that the arm and bracket could be taken to a machine shop and a professional repair performed.

Happy New Year to all - -

George P.

[tomb]

It is amazing with a little imagination the amount of repairs that can be done with aluminum beer or coke cans. Gives a person an excuse to go to the liquor store for repair parts. It might take a few cans to find the perfect shim thickness but I will tough it out and take one for the team.. Tom B

[JerryVan]

Jerry,

Though stated crudely, or perhaps rudely, the advice to press in an accurately sized bushing is truly the best. Done correctly, it will be a nearly invisible repair. Shims will either jam the turntable on way too tight, or fall out if they're as loose as they should be to allow easy future turntable removal.

Not knowing how much too big the existing hole is, consider that it may NOT have been worn or enlarged. Zonophones, made after the Victor buyout, used "Victor" turntables, but with larger holes in them.

If you like, I will do such a repair for you, free of charge, except for shipping costs, if you would like to send me the turntable and spindle shaft.

By the way, no offense intended towards any well meaning suggestions previously offered by anyone.

[edisonclassm]

Thank you Jerry for your support in this matter. As a fellow machinist and one of high standing, I knew you would agree with my restoration strategy for this problem.

[Phono-Phan]

Problem solved. I was able to get the turntable fitted with a bushing and the fit is nice and tight. I had to go to my mentor machinist to use his larger lathe to hold the turntable. I wanted to make sure that the hole we needed to make to accept a bushing was perfectly straight and square to the turntable to prevent any chance of wobbling when spinning. The hole wasn't big enough to accept a bushing of any substantial thickness. So we needed to enlarge it a bit. I didn't trust my drill press for this task. We milled in from the underside rather than punch through with a drill that would damage the original felt. We then made a bushing to fit and cut the slot for the spindle pin. The bushing was a tight fit but not bad enough to be concerned about cracking the cast iron. The bushing was also coated with the mean/green Locktite.
Ken Brekke