Using a Model H Reproducer to play 2 Minute Cylinders

[CDBPDX]

I've played some 2 minute cylinders with a 4 minute Model H reproducer and it sounded fine. The 2 minute groove must seem awfully roomy to a 4 minute stylus. Does this damage the 2 minute cylinder? the stylus? something else?

Thanks! Cliff

[startgroove]

Cliff, I've played 2 minute cylinders with a model H reproducer several times, but not over a long period of time. Each time the sound was as good as a model C would produce and I did not have any trouble with tracking. However, each of those tests were with an Indestructible or similar material record. I would not play a wax cylinder through a model H.

[gramophone-georg]

Cliff, I've played 2 minute cylinders with a model H reproducer several times, but not over a long period of time. Each time the sound was as good as a model C would produce and I did not have any trouble with tracking. However, each of those tests were with an Indestructible or similar material record. I would not play a wax cylinder through a model H.

Yabut... the model H was developed to play the early wax Amberols, yes?

Confession time- when I had my Home I never bothered removing the H reproducer and used it for both types of records in time duration and composition with no ill effects.

[Chuck]

The instructions inside every combination machine
lid very clearly state which reproducer plays which
type of records. Model C for 2 minute. Model H for
4 minute. That does not come from me, it came from
Mr. Edison himself.

So, every time anyone decides for themselves to
play *any* 2 minute record with a model H reproducer,
they are doing exactly what Edison himself advised
quite strongly NOT to do.

If that is not reason enough to do it properly, then
no amount of explaining about weight distribution will
help.


(while we are on this kind of a subject, why not
ask if it's a good idea to play an Edison Diamond Disc
on a Victrola?)

Let's find out how many folks know the real answer
to this one. It ought to work ok for just a few
times, right?

[edisonclassm]

I agree with Chuck. 2 minute wax should never be played with any 4 minute stylus as the record will incur immediate damage. You can get a way with it on indestructables only.

[gramophone-georg]

Hey it was almost 40 years ago, LOL. Never noticed any real deterioration, but then, there were two different styli for a reason, right? I wasn't recommending it so much as fessing up that I did it.

[GrafonolaG50]

I use an H on some shrunken 2 minute Indestructibles. It tracks better than the C, which skips.

[startgroove]

As I stated above “..each of those tests were with an Indestructible or similar material record. I would not play a wax cylinder through a model H.”

I think Chuck correctly pointed out the weight distribution issue of using a 4 minute needle on a 2 minute record. Yet, I wondered how bad could it be. Probably not too bad on an Indestructible, but the worst case would be the softer wax cylinders.

So, I created a test. I selected a bad condition 2 minute black wax. It had fairly good grooves at the beginning of the cylinder and some bad rust at the end. Perfect for the test.

I played it on a Triumph that was set for two minute play, installed its H reproducer and played for 1 inch into the groove. I stopped after 1 inch so as to shorten the time it took to perform the test, and also to have ample area to compare the area played through the H reproducer with the rest of the area that had always (presumedly) been played through a C reproducer. I played the cylinder over and over 12 times. I could not discern any difference in the quality of the sound from first playing to last. Visually, there did not appear to be any change in the color or condition of the grooves.

The photo below shows the cylinder. I made a paint mark after the spot where the playback with the H reproducer stopped each time.

I did not perform the same test on an Indestructible cylinder. I made the assumption that the harder material of an Indestructible could withstand many more playbacks than a black wax could, before degradation.

In conclusion, I would think that a now and then playing of a 2 minute record through an H reproducer would probably not do much harm, but I strongly recommend against doing that on a rare, or valuable, recording.