Graphics on Columbia AT. Original?

[phonogfp]

The additional eBay photos clearly show that the front left corner of the upper casting is broken off and missing. This is from the swelled casting cracking under the pressure between the two front screws. A new upper casting is in order if this machine is to be restored...

George P.

[hearsedriver]

Thats a shame. Its got such a beautiful cabinet.

[FellowCollector]

Many years ago when I had just started collecting I walked into an antique shop and noticed a lovely original Columbia AT with nice original cabinet and decal and the upper works looked nice as well.

I asked the shop owner if it played as I saw no crank. [That should have been my first clue to be cautious...]

"I think it will play just fine but I don't have the crank...it's $225 if you want it." I thought that was a good deal considering its fine condition so I whipped out the cash, loaded it in the car and drove off with confidence that I'd get it playing shortly after arriving home.

The carriage was frozen in place but that didn't bother me one bit as I knew I could figure out how to get everything apart and get it moving again. After all, someone in the factory assembled it so it SHOULD be able to be disassembled. Yeah, right...

The first thing I noticed after getting it home and looking directly down at the top works was that the mandrel was somehow tilted toward the front of the casting. Then I noticed the small top pulley gear was not even close to meshing with the large intermediate gear on the casting. Ohhhhh boy. Finally, looking directly straight on at the front of the top works casting I realized that there was at least a ⅛" (or more!) casting WARP between the 2 front casting screws.

So much for the good deal. I had purchased a Columbia AT with a clearly warped and useless top casting. I removed all the parts that were usable and tossed the top casting in the garbage, beautiful original decals and all.

Taught me a good lesson. Look carefully at what you're about to buy before reaching in your pocket for that cash. Beware of badly warped Columbia AT top castings (and maybe others) along with the known pot metal carriage component parts.

I also immediately felt pity for the unsuspecting ORIGINAL owners of that AT who, like me, made a mistake in buying this AT. Its otherwise excellent original condition and tiny bit of mandrel wear lead me to believe that, unlike me, they likely had at least a few years enjoyment out of it before the casting swelled and warped so badly that it was rendered useless. Live and learn.

Doug

[Chuck]

It's a shame that those Graphophones were made of
such cheap and inferior materials. Sure they were
dressed up in attractive wooden cases and had beautiful
decals and graphics.

But the basic design used el-cheapo materials
that are almost guaranteed to fail.

I bet that made Mr. Edison very happy.

[phonogfp]

It's a shame that those Graphophones were made of
such cheap and inferior materials. Sure they were
dressed up in attractive wooden cases and had beautiful
decals and graphics.

But the basic design used el-cheapo materials
that are almost guaranteed to fail.

I bet that made Mr. Edison very happy.

Don't forget that the most common Graphophones - the B (Eagle) and Q - have no pot metal in them. The most common problem caused by pot metal in Graphophones is a frozen carriage. (If the parts are still serviceable and you know what you're doing, these carriages can be repaired.) By 1905, with the introduction of the excellent B-series of cylinder Graphophones, pot metal was no longer used in Graphophones.

If only Edison had followed the same course - - we wouldn't have all those crumbling mandrels on Edison Gems, crumbling lower pulleys on Edison Homes, and of course the later swollen Edison reproducers, recorders, and adapter rings.

Let's not use too broad a brush to paint Graphophones as "el-cheapo" and "almost guaranteed to fail." There are many thousands still working after over a century!

George P.

[NEFaurora]

This is a great thread. Currently, I have only ever collected Edison machines, but I have always loved the details and beautiful decals of the Columbia cylinder machines. I definitely think that I will branch out into collecting Columbia machines someday, but I am curious... I know reproduction Columbia reproducers are available, but what about other repro parts such as Reproduction Upper frame castings and Reproduction reproducer mounts, etc.

Is there any great supplier of these oddball Columbia machine parts that were originally made of crappy potmetal??? And What is available?? I'd like to know. I am only talking about the Columbia cylinder machines here.

Thanks.

:0)

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[phonogfp]

The most common problem encountered with pot metal in Columbia machines is in the carriages/trunnions.* Jean-Paul Agnard can supply most any carriage/trunnion part needed for a Graphophone.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/jean-paul.agna ... uction.htm

As for upper castings, the vast majority of these are cast iron and are readily available as parts. I regularly see them on eBay and shows. No doubt fellows like Ron Sitko and George Vollema have boxes of them.

George P.

*Pot metal carriages are found in all the Grand models except the GG. They are regularly encountered in ATs, AOs, and later Cs. Many of the original carriages can be repaired.

[NEFaurora]

Interesting important info. Thanks much George P.

I've done a few deals with Jean-Paul Agnard a few times and even met him twice. George Vollema of Great Lakes Antique Phonograph is also a good guy and I've bought tons of stuff from him over the years... Ron Sitko, I know who he is, but I've never had the pleasure of doing any dealings with him. Its good to know that these are the "Go-To" people for Columbia parts.

Will make a note...and I am sure everyone else will as well.

Thanks again George P.

Tony K.

Edison Collector/Restorer

[phonogfp]

Its good to know that these are the "Go-To" people for Columbia parts.

I'm not suggesting that Ron or George will have more Columbia parts than anyone else - or that other parts suppliers won't have exactly what you're looking for. I would expect any of the well-known parts suppliers to have spare A/AT upper castings. For the carriages, though, Jean-Paul is probably the "go-to" guy outside someone having a good original.

George P.

[Phonofreak]

When did Columbia start using pot metal for the upper works of their machines? What was the S/N range?I have an early AT 1898, with the cast iron upper works. I have a slightly later AT around 1899, also with a cast iron upper works, but fitted with the later embossed high trunion. I am lucky with the ones I have. I have a third one with the pot metal upper works, that was given to me, because of the bad upper works. It's only good for parts. One machine I would love to get is the fancy case AO. I have been shy about them because of the pot metal. Like George says, the machines made after 1905 has no pot metal. This is a very interesting thread.
Harvey Kravitz