Question about machine values

[EdisonWizard]

I'd really like to have a concert or opera one day. How much does a concert run in good condition and same for an opera? I'm thinking about maybe finding an amberola 1A to satisfy the opera itch; but a concert is very cool. I'd like to save up to get one one day!

[Jerry B.]

Good question.

I prefer selling in the Trader section of the Forum. Most sellers will edit their listing by replacing the "FOR SALE:" with "SOLD" when an item sells. If I list something and accept an offer at a lesser amount, I also edit that value so it reflects a true selling price. So I'm suggesting that the Trader section is a good place to learn values. You can use the "search" feature to find much information on the Forum.

eBay can be another source. But instead of looking at current listings, check out "completed sales" or "sold" listings.

I'd also suggest that you get acquainted with an experienced collector that you trust. Even after forty five years of collecting, I ask for opinions when considering a big purchase at Union. I tell new collector friends to give me a call and I'll give you my best long distance advice.

Jerry Blais

[epigramophone]

Last year I missed out on a very good Opera from the home of a gentleman. Like most of the better machines it sold privately by word of mouth, in this case for GBP£4500 which reflects it's comparative rarity in the UK. As for an Amberola 1A, it would be difficult to find one for sale at any price over here.

[Jerry B.]

More thoughts...

Being knowledgable is priceless. Join the Antique Phonograph Society (APS). The cost is minimal and the quarterly publication is wonderful. Like the Forum, APS is a must for new collectors as well as long time Phono Nerds like myself.

Buy some books. Todays collectors have a plethora of great books. There are old threads addressing this subject so search them out.

Some personal advice I always give is to always buy any particular machine based not only its price but also condition. Don't buy a ho hum Edison Triumph just because it fills a hole in your collection. Always be a condition collector.

Jerry Blais

[marcapra]

I love Operas and the Concert machine is the same model. At Stanton's this May, I tried to buy a mahogany Opera even though I already own a fine oak example. There were three Operas there, two in mahogany and one in oak. The first one to go up sold for 3K, a bargain, as it was in good shape. The second one, which I bid on, sold for 4K to another bidder. I don't know what the oak one sold for. Also you have to add 10% to above prices for the auction fee. On Ebay, you will have to pay more.

[VintageTechnologies]

Which Concert machine are we referring to? There were two Edison machines called a Concert. The first one played 5" diameter wax cylinders. The other one was simply a later Opera with a different name plate.

[Valecnik]

I'd really like to have a concert or opera one day. How much does a concert run in good condition and same for an opera? I'm thinking about maybe finding an amberola 1A to satisfy the opera itch; but a concert is very cool. I'd like to save up to get one one day!

Maybe you should also consider an Amberola 1B or III to satisfy your itch. They both have the quiet running Opera mechanism and are less expensive than the Opera. Also, they are generally much less noisy than an Amberola 1A. A large carriage Triumph would be good too imho!

[Raphael]

I love Operas and the Concert machine is the same model. At Stanton's this May, I tried to buy a mahogany Opera even though I already own a fine oak example. There were three Operas there, two in mahogany and one in oak. The first one to go up sold for 3K, a bargain, as it was in good shape. The second one, which I bid on, sold for 4K to another bidder. I don't know what the oak one sold for. Also you have to add 10% to above prices for the auction fee. On Ebay, you will have to pay more.

Quoting auction results can be very misleading. I bought the first one, and beg to differ about the condition. I figured into the purchase price another $1,000-$1,500 in restoration costs.

And one should keep in mind that getting to Stanton's is not free, plus hotel costs, meals, etc. Not to mention at least 4 days or more of time invested.

Raphael

[Starkton]

In March, at Donley Auctions, two mahagony case Operas with wood horn were sold:

One for USD 2600: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Edison-Opera-Cy ... Swol5YwmiF
Mahogany case Opera in original condition. Model A. Serial number 2445. Bed plate in good original condition with good pin striping. Copper oxidized parts in good condition. Machine winds up and plays well. Original mahogany horn. Bell has been refinished and goose neck repainted. No decal on horn bell. No splits or separations in bell. Original decal on front of cabinet. Lid of cabinet has 2 large veneer chips on right hand side.

Another one for USD 1700: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mahogany-Edison ... SwSlBYwm-c
Mahogany Edison Opera Cylinder Horn Phonograph - The mahogany cabinet and cover have been refinished, but it looks nice. Replica decal on front of cabinet. Bed plate and gear covers have been repainted black, with no pin striping. Has beautiful original finish Edison Diamond A reproducer with good stylus. Has original crank and cabinet handles. Motor winds and plays beautifully. The 21" mahogany horn is an original Edison with both decals, but the elbow may be from a radio horn. Horn has also been refinished, and has several cracks here and there.

The price difference reflects the condition. You must add about 25% buyers premium.

[Uncle Vanya]

I love Operas and the Concert machine is the same model. At Stanton's this May, I tried to buy a mahogany Opera even though I already own a fine oak example. There were three Operas there, two in mahogany and one in oak. The first one to go up sold for 3K, a bargain, as it was in good shape. The second one, which I bid on, sold for 4K to another bidder. I don't know what the oak one sold for. Also you have to add 10% to above prices for the auction fee. On Ebay, you will have to pay more.

Quoting auction results can be very misleading. I bought the first one, and beg to differ about the condition. I figured into the purchase price another $1,000-$1,500 in restoration costs.

And one should keep in mind that getting to Stanton's is not free, plus hotel costs, meals, etc. Not to mention at least 4 days or more of time invested.

Raphael

Well, we must always keep in mind the point that different collectors have different standards. The Opera which you bought would probably display nicely in a room filled with period furniture in nice original condition, but as an individual artifact would not be of the gem-like quality for which your stock in trade is justly renowned.

This brings up a problem that we noticed some years ago when we still had a bit of money to waste on expensive machines; We have several pieces of period (Eighteenth Century) Vernis-Martin and Boulle furniture in our reception parlor. While in good condition, they retain their original surfaces, showing evidence of gentle use over the past two-and-a-half centuries. Now, the Vernis-Martin Victrola machines were rather bright and gaudy when new, but one should have expected the passage of a hundred years should have mellowed the effect of their brilliant finish, as it has for the Bourbon originals. Not so! The market for these rarities considers them only as individual items, and so every machine which comes to market has been aggressively restored. A restored Vernis-Martin machine, with a finish which glitters, growls, bites and snaps,looks simply awful in a period room with antique furniture. It's brilliant polish makes the best preserved antiques look shabby, and their soft, aged effect makes the restored machine look a tawdry interloper.