Unusually large diaphragm

[Stan]

I recently purchased a Triumphonic reproducer on ebay which looks like an HMV or Victrola No.4 knockoff. Unfortunately, the sound isn't very good - it's very dull, despite my modest rebuild - new gaskets, makeshift flange. The mica diaphragm is quite large, about 2 ⅜ inches, and I've read that 2 inches is about the maximum, as larger ones produce dull sound. Does anyone have any experience with large diaphragms?

Page 11 of this book discusses the limits of diaphragm sizes- even though it's from 1908, it coincides with my experience with the Triumphonic reproducer-

https://books.google.com/books?id=TSEyA ... &q&f=false

Thanks,
Stan

[Phonofreak]

From my experience, the bigger the diaphragm, the louder and better the sound. Is this the original diaphragm? Maybe, the diaphragm is tired and a new mica needed. Another point to check is the needle bar.Is it bent or cockeyed, or out of alignment? Check the pivot pints, to see if they are loose or too tight. It's a matter of trial and error.
Harvey Kravitz

[Stan]

Thanks, Harvey. The diaphragm is in good shape, and the needle bar appears to be straight. It looks similar to a No.4, but there doesn't appear to be the small steel balls you find in the no.4's needle arm bearing assembly. I think the pivot points touch the needle. The lock nuts are quite large. In short, everything looks OK.

Do you have experience with larger diaphragms like this one? The largest I've come across are on the No.4, and those are too small for this reproducer, they'd pop out of the frame. The volume is good, and there isn't any distortion, but the sound is dull.

I'm going to experiment with an aluminum diaphragm.

Stan

[CDBPDX]

The adjustable pivot fulcrums for the needle bar might be a bit out of adjustment. They should be adjusted so there is no side to side slack to the needle bar, but not tight. Try experimenting with that adjustment. Also, make sure the pivot points are lubricated.

Cliff

[WDC]

This is a reproducer made by Paillard. They were also offered by Goldring as the Juwel Electro in this size and smaller. I have three of these oversized reproducers, which all have a 6cm diaphragm. There are slight differences within these reproducers, especially the position of the thumb screw. Some have the triangular hole for fibre needles while others don't. To me, these are the finest mica diaphragm reproducers one can get.

Mine sound all great with slight variation, but all very enjoyable. Problems of a muffled reproduction do usually occur when the bearing needs adjustment. I would take it apart, clean and oil it carefully, then re-assemble it. The perfect adjustment is usually reached when the needle bar (while being detached from its diaphragm) can move freely like a scale but without any side movement.

[Stan]

Thanks everyone for the feedback, I really appreciate it. WDC - thanks for the information about Paillard - I couldn't find anything about Triumphonic. It's an attractive reproducer, and looks like it should sound good. I'll do as you and others have suggested, and tinker with the needle bar adjustment.

BTW, I misspoke when describing the pivot-fulcrum bar assembly. I've attached a close-up shot with the pivots unscrewed.

[Stan]

Two more questions - does anyone have any thoughts as to how this type of reproducer should sound with electrics? My 2 HMV No.4 sound boxes reproduce electrics clearly, with bright sound and a lot of treble, and bring out the higher fidelity. The Triumphonic is comparable to an Exhibition - which actually does a decent job with electrics, but doesn't offer much in the way of bright sound or fidelity.

Secondly, I'm using white tubing for gaskets, which fit nicely, but might not be optimal. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate them.

[CDBPDX]

I'm using white tubing for gaskets, which fit nicely, but might not be optimal. If anyone has any suggestions, I'd appreciate them.

As long as the white tubing is soft enough to isolate vibrations to the diaphragm from any other source than the needle bar and snug enough to create an airtight seal around the diaphragm, it should work perfectly. Your rebuild looks good.

Cliff

[WDC]

From what I can see, the bearing looks intact. The trick is to find the sweet spot where it is sufficiently tightened yet loose enough to pivot freely. The quality is very comparable to a Victor No. 4 but with more bass. But as Cliff remarked, soft and fresh gasket tubing is essential too.

Of course, the best reproducer will sound poorly on a machine that is not good match. That's why I would never use an Orthophonic on any of my machines. So, here's quick and rather dirty video, demonstrating one of my Goldring reproducers. The machine is a German Hymnophon upright with a saxophone horn. Never mind the missing focus...

[youtubehd]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qeZjenKNAE[/youtubehd]

[CarlosV]

The largest diaphragm reproducers I have are shown below: it is an unbranded German on the left, followed by a Swiss Pianina on the center. A HMV 4 is shown on the right for comparison. I have also the Pathé Concert reproducers, which are of the same diameter as the Pianina (both shorter than the German one). As to how they sound, haven't found yet, I could not get a machine that would match the height of the turntable with the reproducer, so for now they remain curiosity pieces inside my drawer ...