Lacquer, Rub or not to Rub? That is the question.

[larryh]

Hello all,

Well I finally have the William and Mary Console back together and was able to make all the adjustments it needed to play well. It has been about a week now since the last coat of lacquer on the finish. I had all along planned to rub it down. I have always rubbed shellac with good results. But in reading on the internet last night I find that although Lacquer usually needs to be rubbed down, they seem to feel it is no where as easy as shellac to get good results. Worse I saw an article that mentioned that if you used any of the semi, or satin brushing lacquers then they should not be rubbed as it can ruin the finish. Now I am pretty confused. Another article I saw said the fellow never rubs his lacquer finishes and has a wonderful looking dining set that is 40 years old and never been waxed or rubbed and looks better than new?

So what to do? Another Point I saw was that lacquer needs to age for several weeks minimum or again you can ruin the finish trying to work on it.

If you do have experience with this what methods have you successfully used once your work is well cured? Any thoughts on the Semi gloss not being able to be rubbed?

thanks
Larry

[bobsled48]

Larry, If you are looking for a rubbed finish you probably should put a couple of coats of gloss lacquer over what you have already applied, then rub it to whatever sheen you are looking for, its a lot of work ,also should be sanded with some 400 grit between coats.Be sure to let it dry thoroughly between coats also, as it may "blush" causing a lot more work, hope this helps, Bob

[larryh]

Hi Bob,

Well then it would appear that I am stuck with the shiny effects of a brushed product. I was hoping a simple one step rub like on shellac would dull it a bit and that wax would then give the finish the correct depth and effect. I am not really displeased with the way it looks but I was hoping that it would be leveled out to give the wood a more sophisticated look than the shine that even the semi gloss gives. I didn't know before I started that you weren't supposed to use anything but high gloss lacquer if you wanted to bring the finish down like with shellac. I read one account of using a 0000 steel wool pad loaded with wax to take the brightness off the finish but everything else I have seen is saying many steps of sandpaper and finally steel wool or pumice is the only way to make it look right an than any misstep along the way can wreck your work.. So I am in a holding pattern for now.

[bbphonoguy]

When I worked in antique restoration we always rubbed out laquer. We used a compound called "Rottenstone" for high gloss, and we used Scotch-Brite and some sort of waxy-greasy water soluble compound, that I don't remember the name of, for satin finishes.

Here's what we used to do to rub out finishes, if you insist on doing it, but I may not remember all the steps, and you would do yourself a huge favor by finding a good refinish shop and asking them what to do. One that refinishes pianos usually would be able to tell you how to get a nice result.

The first thing is surface preparation (filling pores and all that stuff), you've already got the lacquer on, so I guess there's no point in discussing this.

Once the lacquer was on, we would wet sand it with 400 grit, and then 600 grit wet-or-dry paper. We always used a sanding block rather than just holding the paper in our hands, and of course you always sand with the grain. You have to be careful sanding edges, corners, and molding, because you can go through to the bare wood before you'd ever think it possible.


Once the finish was smooth to our satisfaction we would wipe off the dust with a damp rag. To produce a satin finish we used the products mentioned above, always using the Scotch-Brite in the direction of the grain, and always making sweeps that traveled the entire length of the surface. For a gloss finish we used Rottenstone, and basically just polished the surface with a rag, using the same motions as if waxing a car.


Hope this helps.

[Brad]

I used brushing lacquer on a cylinder cabinet I made several years ago. I used the pumice/rotten stone rubbing with a hard felt block and paraffin oil. It was hours and hours of work with roll after roll of paper towels and naphtha cleaning off one grit, going finer, etc.

In the end, how was the finish? Absolutely fabulous. Was I pleased with the results? Absolutely. Will I do it again? Absolutely not!

It was too much work, never again.

Having said that, go for it!

[AZ*]

If you want to rub down a lacquer finish, you should use gloss lacquer. Satin lacquer has flattening agents added to it that are suspended in the finish. Open a can of gloss lacquer, it's perfectly clear and you can see the bottom of the can. Open a can of satin lacquer. The "white" stuff in it that you have to stir up is the flattening agent, tiny bits of ground up stuff that are designed to dull the finish.

There are a number of good books on furniture finishing, and many can be had for less than $10 used. I like "Understanding Wood Finishing" by Bob Flexner. Bob recommends letting a lacquered piece sit a long time (weeks or months) before rubbing.

I never brush lacquer. Spray application is the only way to go (for me at least).

[bbphonoguy]

If you want to rub down a lacquer finish, you should use gloss lacquer. Satin lacquer has flattening agents added to it that are suspended in the finish. Open a can of gloss lacquer, it's perfectly clear and you can see the bottom of the can. Open a can of satin lacquer. The "white" stuff in it that you have to stir up is the flattening agent, tiny bits of ground up stuff that are designed to dull the finish.

Flattening compound! I remember that stuff. We had to add it to the lacquer ourselves. We used it to produce a matte finish for customers who liked the look of a wax finish but wanted the durability of lacquer.

[larryh]

After living with it in the house now for nearly a week It seems I will just leave it alone. Evidently the flattening agents in the semi gloss, "the whitish" stuff in the can they keep warning you to stir well is designed to give it a somewhat rubbed effect. I am not real sure what the warnings on the net were about on not rubbing any of the lacquers that contain that substance exactly meant, but I have decided not to chance making matters worse. I sort of wish now I had redone the whole cabinet, but normally I don't do that as I like to preserve as much of the original look as possible. The top on this was just so far gone it couldn't be saved.