Edison skipping forward

[Iancan2]

Hi everyone. I have recently received an Edison Home Model F from my grandfather, but I am having a very strange issue with it that has me completely baffled. The records are skipping, but not how you would expect, they are skipping forward. I noticed that this forum has a lot of knowledable people on this forum and was hoping that you guys might have better insight on the issue.

First, I would like to confirm some things about my setup, since I am new to these I don't know too much and information can be hard to come by. To my knowledge, the Home Model F is a 4 minute only machine, is this correct? Also it has a diamond B reproducer, which from my research should also be 4 minute only. All of the records my grandfather had were 4 minute, so I think this should be correct.

So here is my explanation of what is happening. When watching the reproducer I can see that it appears to start falling behind (it bends backwards) and then suddenly skips forward on the record. To me it seems almost like the main shaft (the threaded drive rod) is advancing faster than the record is playing. I have adjusted the machines speed but that didn't really do anything. One thing that I noticed is that the stylus doesn't appear to move freely. Where the stylus is held in place by a pin it appears that the metal on the reproducer may have swelled because the stylus is a very tight fit in the reproducer (I read that the metal used has a tendency to swell). I thought that the issue could be caused by the stylus not keeping proper contact with the record, but it is able to create enough force to allow the reproducer to bend backwards before it skips forward. I've also noticed that the records I have are somewhat warped. This can be seen when the record is playing Could this be part of my issue? I don't know what kind of tolerances are considered acceptable for warped records (I don't even know how perfect these records would have been brand new).

One thing that I can't seem to find a lot of information on is how freely the stylus should move. The design makes it look to me like the stylus should want to fall down with gravity, helping it to keep contact with the record, but the stylus doesn't move with gravity. It does move with a light touch though.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I think that this machine is really cool and I would love to get it working as intended. If you can think of any more information that would help diagnose the issue just ask. I can also take photos and video of anything that might help. Thanks to everyone who helps.

[outune]

Iancan2- You are correct that the Model F was intended as a 4 minute only machine and came equipped with a diamond B reproducer and an oak cygnet horn. - However-- the only difference between the "F" and a 2/4 mechanism is a small spacer that was installed on the end of the mandrel shaft, inside the two part pulley. From your description it sounds like the carriage is moving across the record too fast. I wonder if at some point the spacer was removed from your machine, allowing it to function as a 2/4 machine. It may be in the two-minute position. Try moving the smaller part of the pulley to see if it will shift to four minute-- You can test the theory by removing the record and timing how long it takes the carriage to move from one end of the mandrel to the other. Closer to two minutes may mean the spacer is missing.

Just a thought off the top of my head. I, too, have a Home "F"-- a seldom found model. Mine has the spacer installed, locking it into 4 minute mode.

Brad Abell

[outune]

One more thought-- After re-reading your post-- Yes- the stylus needs to move freely, but also the weight needs to move freely back and forth within the limits of the "limit loop"-- Try loosening the large screw that attaches the weight to the upper casting. There is a spring steel leaf-spring and a u-shaped spacer that the screw goes through. They must be loose in order to swing side-to-side. If it is too tight, that could also cause the issue you are having.

Brad Abell

[Iancan2]

Thank you so much for all the information. This is certainly something I probably would have never been able to figure out on my own. I had noted that it seemed to cross the mandrel in less than four minutes, but I wasn't sure if these records were ever actually a full four minutes. I timed it and it took two minutes and forty-five seconds to cross the whole mandrel, and that is with it at a speed of about 150 rpm (I was adjusting the speed to see if that could be part of the issue and haven't bothered to adjust it back).

Edit: I figured out how to get back to the 4 minute mode. I don't exactly understand how that makes it cross the mandrel slower, but it plays great now. Now I just need to adjust the speed back. Thank you so much for your help. That was an easier fix than I was even expecting.

[Kevan]

Welcome Iancan2
The speed for 4min records and most 2min is 160 rpm.

Kevan

[tomb]

Congratulations on you receiving a Home F. It is a workhorse and a tough machine. It is one of the rarer home machines and was the last Edison model home produced. Production ceased in October 1913. No G machine have been seen. It was basically an model E with the spacer put into the gear so it would only lay four minutes amberola It was set up at the factory as a four minute machine only. There was an optional 2/4 minute kit available from the factory. that also came with a reducer ring that could be put in the horizontal carriage to use the smaller reproducers. That would allow you to play two and four minute cylinders. the adapter could be set up for a straight or cygnet horns using a elbow connector per Flows. It came from Edison with the horizontal carriage containing a diamond disc reproducer. The horn was a metal cygnet horn painted in oak. They are nice sounding machines so use some synthetic grease and synthetic oil to the gears and it should play well. Tom

[Iancan2]

I posted another thread regarding the fact that after changing the two minute setup to the proper 4 minute setup my machine seems to have developed an increased amount of resistance causing it not to be able to play any records. I fear that it may be due to the adjustment I made when I moved the pulley outward. I'm hoping that I didn't do any permanent damage to anything. Would anyone who has a Home Model F be able to take a picture of the pulley on the main shaft with the spacer that locks it into 4 minute only equiped so I can see how it is supposed to look? Also, I noticed thanks to Tom's pictures that I am missing a screw on the left side of the machine directly under the main shaft. What purpose does this screw have? I'm wondering if it is something I should look into. Everyone on this forum has been a great help, thanks again.

[phonogfp]

It came from Edison with the horizontal carriage containing a diamond disc reproducer.

Just to clarify, your reproducer is a Diamond B, which is what Tom meant to type.

George P.

[tomb]

The screw I think you are referring to might be the set screw that holds the bearing in place. That is the one in the middle to the left on the casting that the mandrel shaft runs thru. It holds the bearing in place. A picture will help us diagnose it better. There are many things that add drag to these machines. A common one is the adjustment of the half nut and feed screw. That is what makes contact when you lower the carriage down to play a cylinder. If it runs fine till you lower the carriage to play a cylinder try adjusting that screw. It is located on the bottom of the feed screw shaft. It is a set screw. It should be adjusted so that the carriage barely touches the knife edge. If it is like that do not touch it. If it needs adjustment turn it ⅛ turn at a time checking to see if it has removed the drag. You will have to move the carriage all the way to the right to make the adjustment. If that does not work we can suggest more things to check. Moving that 2/4 lever back and forth and it working or not working right I am not sure of. It could be several things. There is a speed adjustment screw on the bottom near the governor. You have to lift the bedplate up to see it. that also could be set too slow.. Just have a look at it because if it adjusted too tight it will also slow it down. It is an upside down knurled screw. Tom