the problem with older fakes

[Sidewinder]

In the late 1970's a batch of "hand wound Berliner style 2" was made in Italy

sorry to say, this is one of them
http://cgi.ebay.com/1897-Berliner-Style ... 2eacbdb975

[bbphonoguy]

I know nothing about these, so I'm not disagreeing with you, but how can you tell it's fake? I mean, what gave it away? I suspect the seller knows it's not real, because he goes on and on about what a great item it is, but there's no reserve or minimum bid for such a supposedly rare find.

[Zeppy]

I'm curious too...what is the give away? For a fake, it is a rather impressive (I'd pick it up even knowing it was a fake...afterall, I could never afford an original).

As for the lack of a reserve....some people just roll the dice and trust the market...particularly if you got it cheap, and figure it's an easy profit.

[Fonotone]

I'm the seller of the machine in question, and needless to say I take issue with what's under discussion. But since it's already on the table, I would like Sidewinder, the OP, to defend his original post and not simply spout off and walk away. Were I under the impression that the Gramophone was a fake, even an old one, I would have disclosed as much in my listing. I've certainly made no secret of its reproduction parts. To the contrary, I've gone to great extremes to identify those reproduction parts, even those that at first blush appear to be original. I've attempted to contact the OP in order to learn what makes him confident enough to characterize my machine, in a public forum, as a 70's era forgery, but so far I've received no response from him. If he (or anyone else) can make a reasonable case to me that he's correct, I'll end the auction and relist the phonograph with all the proper disclosures. If he can't make a reasonable case to me that he's correct, I'd like him to refrain from opining further about it. As for running the auction without a reserve, I've been listing high end phonographs and wireless sets on ebay for almost 14 years, and virtually all of them -- even those that end up selling for $5,000 or more, open at $9.95, with no reserve. That's why they call it an auction. An "auction" that has an opening bid representing 80% of what the seller estimates to be its market value, or that has a reserve equivalent to that amount, is not an auction. It's an ad.