Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Discussions on Talking Machines & Accessories
User avatar
beaumonde
Victor III
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:13 pm
Location: On Chicago's South Side

Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by beaumonde »

The wire insulation at the base of this "female" plug must have been brittle. When I plugged it back in after oiling the motor and replacing the motorboard, I powered it up, turned on the motor, and...promptly heard a "pop", saw a faint flash, and smelled 83 year old wires burning!

This was the result (a clean separation). Yes, I can see it's dusty in there.

I am informed that it is easy to fix, but I am going to leave that to a more electrically-inclined friend who will be visiting for the Union show next month. I just hope the motor itself wasn't damaged...
Attachments
IMG_3189.JPG
Adam

User avatar
Brad
Victor III
Posts: 939
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:12 pm
Personal Text: So many phonographs, so little money
Location: The Garden State

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by Brad »

Got to love that smell of ozone and who knows what. :)

It is not likely the motor would be damaged as the short happened before the motor. I always check for brittle insulation on old cords by making a tight bend in the cord before I plug it. If the insulation cracks or breaks, I will replace the cord before I plug it in.

You can get reproduction cloth covered cord the looks very good, however, it is expensive (for what you are getting).

Good luck
Why do we need signatures when we are on a first avatar basis?

User avatar
beaumonde
Victor III
Posts: 616
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:13 pm
Location: On Chicago's South Side

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by beaumonde »

Good advice, Brad. I've had this machine for over 6 years, and have done this about as many times before, so didn't even think about it. Until it happened, that is.
Adam

User avatar
Henry
Victor V
Posts: 2624
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:01 am
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by Henry »

Ozone is odorless, so that smell was probably from the burning materials themselves.

martinola
Victor III
Posts: 961
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 1:30 pm

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by martinola »

I disagree Henry. Ozone (O3) has a distinct odor. Carbon Monoxide (O1) is odorless, which is the deadlier of the two. I do agree with you that there are other, more pronounced nasty odors produced with burning insulation. The main thing is to not be holding on to it when it happens. :mrgreen:

Good luck with the replacement beaumonde!

Martin

gramophoneshane
Victor VI
Posts: 3463
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:21 pm

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by gramophoneshane »

Old mixmasters have a distinct smell while operating, which is apparently ozone.

User avatar
Henry
Victor V
Posts: 2624
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 11:01 am
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by Henry »

I stand corrected! The Wiki has some interesting information on this topic: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone. I should have read this before I posted!

frenchmarky
Victor I
Posts: 165
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:21 pm

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by frenchmarky »

beaumonde wrote:I am informed that it is easy to fix, but I am going to leave that to a more electrically-inclined friend who will be visiting for the Union show next month.
Yeah it is just taking out the two housing screws, then restrip the wire ends and reconnect to the socket. Remember to knot the wire inside the socket. I had to do this to my Credenza a few weeks ago to remove a now-unused a/c wire somebody had added to it.

gregbogantz
Victor II
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:03 pm

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by gregbogantz »

Beau, there is probably nothing to worry about as it is common for old wiring to become brittle and break. But if this happened to me, especially with the issuance of smoke and odor, I'd be a little suspicious that there might be a short circuit somewhere in your player. After replacing the cord or just replacing the socket on the end of the old cord, I would at least hook up the machine thru a fuse (around 5 amp rating) or to an outlet strip that contains a circuit breaker. Since I have the means, I would actually hook the machine up to a variac with an attached ammeter and slowly bring up the voltage with the phono switched on while monitoring the current. A short circuit will cause a very rapid rise in current which can readily be seen in the ammeter. Proper operation should not draw more than about 2 amps. If you do not use a variac or a fuse or circuit breaker, a short circuit could cause a melting of the wiring in your phono with the possibility of starting a fire before the circuit breaker in your house wiring would trip. I don't mean to be alarmist, but old electrical equipment like this should always be treated with a sense of caution. There are many of the electrical parts which may have degraded to an unsafe condition over these many years (cooked motor insulation or abraded wiring that seems to be OK now). I would advise adding a fuse somewhere inside the cabinet near where the power enters to protect from future short circuits even if things are working OK now.
Collecting moss, radios and phonos in the mountains of WNC.

phonojim
Victor IV
Posts: 1475
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 8:20 pm
Location: Mid - Michigan

Re: Just had this happen to my 8-30X...

Post by phonojim »

Most of the wiring in these old machines is at least unsafe if not downright dangerous. I have a rule about old electrical/electronic equipment: if it is not in use it is unplugged or, if attached to a power strip, the strip is turned off.
The line cord should always be replaced before any extended use and any internal wiring that is at all questionable should be replaced also. In your case, I would search for new wire that matches the original as closely as possible and replace all of the wiring rather than just repairing this fault because the same problem will happen somewhere else inside the cabinet. This old wire is usually rubber insulated and cloth (cotton or silk) covered. If the cloth hasn't deteriorated, the rubber probably has, so every time that wire is moved, the rubber cracks a little more and a little more of it falls off and the wire becomes exposed. That is what happened to you: enough of the insulation at the plug flaked off to allow the wires to touch, the resulting short vaporized the wire and the plug fell off... and probably scared you to death!
You don't have a major problem, just an annoying one. Much easier than spring replacement but it is a safety issue.

Jim

Post Reply