How to identify acoustic 78 labels for VV-IX?

[Tinkerbell]

Sorry, another "green" phonograph question...

I understand that the older acoustic Victor machines were designed to only play the laterally cut 78s. Is there an easy method for identifying these 78s when digging through stacks of them? For instance, with the Decca label, is there a particular colored label that would identify those types of recordings? Or is there a general cut-off date to differentiate between acoustic and electric recordings?

I thank you for your patience with my naïveté in this area.

Tink

[Wolfe]

Excepting Edison Diamond Discs and Pathé discs, the major exceptions, most records are lateral cut.

Pathé NEEDLE CUT records (introduced ca. 1920) are also lateral.

You may find minor oddball exceptions here and there, but it's likely that if it's vertical cut, it'll indicate somewhere on the label or sleeve, most disc gramophones only being equipped for lateral cut discs anyway.

Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, Decca, etc. are always lateral.

[OrthoFan]

Determining whether records are acoustically or electrically recorded can be a challenge for newbies, but there are some things to look for that are easily spotted.

First of all, all American Decca records are electrically recorded. The company was established nearly nine years after the (1925) introduction of electrical recording in 1934.

Victor and Columbia records are also easy. In addition to the eventual label changes--"Orthophonic" for Victor and "Viva Tonal" for Columbia--Victor and Columbia electrical records were marked in the shellac, in the runoff area of the groove. Victor electrical records have a small VE in an oval--later a diamond. Columbia electrical recordings have a small "W" in the runoff area.

These are the most common records you're likely to come across.

Another way to tell is by the serial number on the disc, corresponding to when the record was initially released. The guide provided on this page can be very helpful:


http://www.78discography.com/

For most record companies, 1925/1926 marked the introduction of the electrical process, though some of the second tier companies continued to issue acoustically recorded records until about 1929. (There was an earlier post about this on this forum, which I'll try to locate later today.)

HTH
OF

[Wolfe]

The last acoustically recorded matrix issued in the U.S. was recorded in 1930!

[OrthoFan]

Here's the link to the earlier discussion:

http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 5&start=10

[Tinkerbell]

Thank you, everyone for your responses.

It does make it quite a bit easier to understand exactly "what" I should be looking for. That last post link, which provided some budget label names also makes it a heck of a lot easier to narrow things down when performing online searches.

I appreciate your wealth of knowledge, and for sharing it so freely.

[Lenoirstreetguy]

And for the later stuff: if it's got a lead in groove at the beginning it's electrical designed for an automatic changer.

[Viva-Tonal]

Excepting Edison Diamond Discs and Pathé discs, the major exceptions, most records are lateral cut.

Pathé NEEDLE CUT records (introduced ca. 1920) are also lateral.

You may find minor oddball exceptions here and there, but it's likely that if it's vertical cut, it'll indicate somewhere on the label or sleeve, most disc gramophones only being equipped for lateral cut discs anyway.

Victor, Columbia, Brunswick, Decca, etc. are always lateral.

Not always. Brunswick began recording vertical discs in 1916, but these pre-lateral discs are very scarce. Their first lateral recordings were made circa September 1919 with the first releases issued in January 1920.

The main reason labels that began operations in the WWI era started out producing vertical product was to avoid infringing the patents on lateral cutting then held by Victor and Columbia. Victor Emerson (late of Columbia) started his recording operation in 1916 initially employing a technique that engraved the sound waves at a 45 degree angle, halfway between lateral and vertical (rather like unto recording a mono signal onto one channel of a modern stereo record groove). These were advertised as 'the only record that will play on Victor and Columbia machines without the use of an attachment'. After the lateral patents expired Emerson began producing regular lateral discs.

Other well-known labels who started out making vertical discs before they went to laterals include:

Gennett (verticals from c. October 1917, laterals from April 1919)
Grey Gull (verticals and laterals from c. 1919/1920, laterals only after 1921)
Okeh (verticals from c. June 1918, laterals from c. July 1919)
Paramount (verticals from c. 1917, laterals from late 1919)

[johnk]

Hello, All,

I have read all these through, and I want to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge and experience. I am new to the hobby myself, but I love the learning curve.

I wanted to bring this thread back up to present because I learned so much from it, but am left with a very relevant question still.

I may be coming into a VV 2-55 soon. One question I have is this: since I have read often that newer (big band era, etc.) records are too soft to stand up to a steel needle, what approximate year(s) does the cutoff point occur? And how can I tell? Can I play any RCA-Victors, for example? I just don't want to pursue recordings I can't play.

Thanks in advance!
johnk.

[Guest]

Thanks, I need some clarifiacation on this point myself as a newcomer. I have heard "don't play late 30's/40's" records on a mechanical machine, and I've heard that you can do so, but use a soft tone. When was the diamond stylus introduced to become the optimal method of electrical recording playback? That would make the window for collecting orthophonic records from 'about 1925' <given the label> to 'x' <non-metal needle date>? I guess for lateral cuts we are dealing with three different eras of 78s? ....acoustic/orthophonic/Big Band onward, is there an established name for last?? Thanks.
John S.