Did Edison ever officially approve of the name Diamond Disc?

[marcapra]

I got into a discussion on the Facebook Diamond Disc group, and a member said he'd never heard of the term "Diamond Disc" to refer to Edison records, even though he'd been collecting them for 50 years! He only started hearing the term after joining the Facebook page. He said the term was never put on a record label, although some Edison sleeves have the term "Diamond Disc" from about 1916 - 1922. Those were also the years when Edison dropped the word record and substituted "Re-Creation", at least on the sleeves. Also the term Diamond Disc does not appear on the Edison Phonographs, except on the paste on sticker sometimes seen in the horn cabinet or underneath. I always hear the term "Diamond Disc" to refer to Edison's hill and dale records today, and "Re-creation" just didn't seem to catch on. After looking through Edison advertising, the term Diamond Disc seems to have vanished after about 1922. Were Edison records and phonographs still called Diamond Discs in the late 1920's, or was that a dead term by then?

[phonogfp]

Were Edison records and phonographs still called Diamond Discs in the late 1920's, or was that a dead term by then?

By the late 1920's I expect the Edison organization was grateful for any attention to their product, by whatever name.

George P.

[52089]

The name was used on sleeves and advertising paraphernalia for quite a while. I recall a comment in Frow(?) that at one point the name of the machine was changed to the "New Edison" and dealers were warned not to use any other name for it.

You can see my "New Edison" advertising sign in this thread:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... new+edison

[marcapra]

Thanks 52089 for mentioning The New Edison. That proves that the Edison Co. after 1922 for some reason was trying to drop the Diamond Disc name and go with a new name. I guess The New Edison didn't go over so well, so they came up with "The Edisonic" in 1927 to try to compete with Victrola's Orthophonics.

[coyote]

Not to veer off from the Diamond Disc name, but "The New Edison" was also used in advertising during the Tone Test period years before the Edisonic machines.

Strangely, they carried on this name later, as the LP consoles were labeled "The New Edison" behind the motorboard. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Schubert and Beethoven were also labeled this way in that location prior to changing to "The Edisonic."

Perhaps Fran has some data regarding these two names on the LP and Edisonic machines.

This ad is from 1917, courtesy of http://oldapplianceads.com/edison-phonograph/

[fran604g]

Marc, I can't respond to your OP asking about the word "Diamond" being associated to Edison's Disc records, and I don't wish to pirate your original intent, but to throw in my paltry $.02 on the whole "The New Edison" thing:

Not to veer off from the Diamond Disc name, but "The New Edison" was also used in advertising during the Tone Test period years before the Edisonic machines.

Strangely, they carried on this name later, as the LP consoles were labeled "The New Edison" behind the motorboard. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the Schubert and Beethoven were also labeled this way in that location prior to changing to "The Edisonic."

Perhaps Fran has some data regarding these two names on the LP and Edisonic machines.

I partially agree Bill, but I've only observed 1 or 2 Edisonics with the LP version decal - although it's possible, it's a reach to say this was the case.

My thought is the promotional phrase "The New Edison" was simply regurgitated whenever the advertising dept. felt it was effective. I'm sure T.A.E was also a determining factor in regard to using older endearing phrases, too. He claimed to not be a sentimental man, but I don't really believe that to be true. Especially as he certainly began to realize his own mortality.

"The New Edison" phrase was used in promotional and advertising documents almost from the very beginning, and throughout the entire Edison [Diamond] Disc Phonograph era. It's interesting to note that before the "Edisonic" models were "officially" named, the two were apparently referred to by the company as the "Jubilee Models" for an apparently very short time in 1927 obviously connected to the old man's legacy promotions (in promotional articles featured by Talking Machine World, as the company geared up for Edison's Golden Jubilee). An image of what is clearly a pre-production "Beethoven" is captioned as "Jubilee Model Edison Phonograph", in the Aug. 1927 issue of TMW on pg.68 - if anyone would like to play along.

As for the Schubert... well...I have no proof...but nevertheless, I believe it began life as the elusive "Consolette" model. Whether these cabinets had been on the "drawing board" earlier to be an extension of the Long Playing model line, I couldn't say, but I think they were something that had probably been in the design stage, or maybe even in production prior to the Edison Jubilee celebrations. I just find it hard to believe that the Long Playing technology was abandoned very easily. After all, the co. had invested enormous amounts of $$$ into developing the tech. Charles Edison was accompanied by a Consolette in 1926 as he traversed the nation on his LP promotional tour with Arthur L. Walsh.

Perhaps the extension of the term "The New Edison" was simply a "bridge" used to connect Edison's past accomplishments to his present (and hopefully future) "new" accomplishments? We know now - of course - there were never again any real "new" successful (and I place emphasis on successful) achievements after the withdrawal of the Long Playing products - only a little repackaging of the relatively "old" stuff, with some electronical stuff [my lame attempt at humor] begrudgingly added a little later.

I believe (I think I read) the company solicited jobbers and dealers to name the latest new New Edison, eventually landing on "Edisonic". This promotion seemed to have been aligned with other sweeping changes to the company's advertising platforms, presumably in an attempt by Charles Edison to resurrect that which he surely knew was facing complete failure. One example of this advertising campaign which used "The New Edison" prolifically, can be seen below (May, 1927 issue of Talking Machine World).

Unfortunately, I can't seem to find the article I had read about for the solicitation of possible names. Arggg...

Merry Christmas, all you New Edison fans!

Fran

[marcapra]

Hey Fran and Coyote, you can pirate by OP anytime with great content like that! Coyote, I've never seen that ad and that's a beautiful LP console you have there! Fran, thanks for that Questions ad. I've never seen it. I like that question "Why do most people like jazz better than classical music?" One point though, I've never seen or heard of a Beethoven with a "The New Edison" decal. I have seen an early Schubert with that decal, and since the Schubert maker's plate refers to the name Consolette, I think it was created before the creation of the Beethoven. But I've never seen a Consolette LP machine, and don't know if any were made. Marc.

[coyote]

Wow, Fran, thanks for the info. "Paltry"?! Your post could be another article in the APS journal practically as-is.

I didn't realize that "The New Edison" was more or less constant throughout the life of the Edison Disc Phonograph. I just knew it was used in older ads, as well as being inside the LP consoles, and I recall reading something (most likely from you, Fran) that mentioned at least one Edisonic carrying the phrase.

Marc, it occurred to me that the Edison trade journal was called Diamond Points, although I would guess this is a play on the more-or-less unique disc stylus rather than the records. Apparently the machines were called "Diamond Disc Phonographs" by the company (see Fran's post here), so I can see people just dropping the Phonograph part to refer to the records. However, it would be great to see it used in contemporary print. By the way, Fran, did you ever find any copies of Diamond Points or the EPM? I'd think the request for naming suggestions would have been mentioned there, or in one of the dealer memos.

My apologies for getting into the weeds with this, but I'm personally comfortable with assuming the Schubert was originally the Consolette due to the CLT model badge. It just makes sense. Do I recall correctly that there are printed references to the Consolette early in the LP console marketing? I like to think that the CLT was changed from being solely an LP model (as intended?) when it was deemed that a cheaper Edisonic alternative to the Beethoven was needed. That's just my idea from spotty information I recall seeing. Maybe I'm way off-base!

Marc, thanks for the compliment on the LP console. Even though it's "just" a 1-C (the smallest).

I also came across this poor quality photo of a Saturday Evening Post ad. It's interesting that the typesetting quotes Mr. Edison talking about "Re-Creations" right above a box which goes on about 40-minute records and pictures an LP console.

327EDISON.jpg (120.61 KiB) Viewed 1741 times

[marcapra]

Coyote, I like the 1C model the best of the Long Plays even though it has the smallest horn. I'd buy one if I found one. I guess I like consoles with dual grilles and I just bought a rare Italian Umbrian, IU-19. According to Frow, the Edison Co. made 151 LP Consolettes in May of 1927, 33 more in June, and just 6 more by August. The Schubert Edisonic came out in September, 1927. (Frow, Edison Disc Phonographs c.2001) Just because I've never seen one, doesn't mean they were never made. I guess they just passed into the dustbin of time. It would be great if Edison answered the question "Why do most people like jazz better than classical music" on that question and answer page! I wonder what his answer would be? Marc.

[fran604g]

Wow, Fran, thanks for the info. "Paltry"?! Your post could be another article in the APS journal practically as-is.

I didn't realize that "The New Edison" was more or less constant throughout the life of the Edison Disc Phonograph. I just knew it was used in older ads, as well as being inside the LP consoles, and I recall reading something (most likely from you, Fran) that mentioned at least one Edisonic carrying the phrase.

Marc, it occurred to me that the Edison trade journal was called Diamond Points, although I would guess this is a play on the more-or-less unique disc stylus rather than the records. Apparently the machines were called "Diamond Disc Phonographs" by the company (see Fran's post here), so I can see people just dropping the Phonograph part to refer to the records. However, it would be great to see it used in contemporary print. By the way, Fran, did you ever find any copies of Diamond Points or the EPM? I'd think the request for naming suggestions would have been mentioned there, or in one of the dealer memos.

My apologies for getting into the weeds with this, but I'm personally comfortable with assuming the Schubert was originally the Consolette due to the CLT model badge. It just makes sense. Do I recall correctly that there are printed references to the Consolette early in the LP console marketing? I like to think that the CLT was changed from being solely an LP model (as intended?) when it was deemed that a cheaper Edisonic alternative to the Beethoven was needed. That's just my idea from spotty information I recall seeing. Maybe I'm way off-base!

I also came across this poor quality photo of a Saturday Evening Post ad. It's interesting that the typesetting quotes Mr. Edison talking about "Re-Creations" right above a box which goes on about 40-minute records and pictures an LP console.

Bill, thank you for reminding me I posted that catalog! I wish I could remember everything I've found and disseminated in the past, but sadly my memory just isn't the same anymore. I'm appreciative of your kind words, thank you. I like your 1-C - as you may know, I have one myself that I saved from presumed destruction in 2016. In fact, I had initially planned to do the same as so many others and remove the LP components to install them into one of my C 19s! Once I got her home, and touched her, I could do nothing less than clean her up and do my best to resurrect her to her former glory. I'm a sucker for a forlorn Phonograph.

And "no", I never was able to acquire any of the Diamond Points circulars, although some scans of the first issue were generously given to me by a TMF member who wished to remain anonymous. I do have a complete set of the EPM, both in hard copy and digital files. I also have the complete digital (downloaded) copies of the Talking Machine World issues (Jan. '05 - Dec. '28), EXCEPT for the issues spanning Jan-Jun '26. It seems these months are missing from the original scans that have been made available to us all in recent years, affecting both the digitally and reprinted media I've examined. It would be fabulous if the entirety of TMW could be rescanned using better modern devices, and if these "lost" issues were also included. Some of the original scans are terrible.

Hey Fran and Coyote, you can pirate by OP anytime with great content like that! Coyote, I've never seen that ad and that's a beautiful LP console you have there! Fran, thanks for that Questions ad. I've never seen it. I like that question "Why do most people like jazz better than classical music?" One point though, I've never seen or heard of a Beethoven with a "The New Edison" decal. I have seen an early Schubert with that decal, and since the Schubert maker's plate refers to the name Consolette, I think it was created before the creation of the Beethoven. But I've never seen a Consolette LP machine, and don't know if any were made. Marc.

Marc, thank you for your kind words, also!

Coyote, I like the 1C model the best of the Long Plays even though it has the smallest horn. I'd buy one if I found one. I guess I like consoles with dual grilles and I just bought a rare Italian Umbrian, IU-19. According to Frow, the Edison Co. made 151 LP Consolettes in May of 1927, 33 more in June, and just 6 more by August. The Schubert Edisonic came out in September, 1927. (Frow, Edison Disc Phonographs c.2001) Just because I've never seen one, doesn't mean they were never made. I guess they just passed into the dustbin of time. It would be great if Edison answered the question "Why do most people like jazz better than classical music" on that question and answer page! I wonder what his answer would be? Marc.

To tie into the Consolette convo, here's another tease given to us by Talking Machine World on pg.134 of the June 1927 issue. I only wish there was a photograph and location included! Oh well, maybe someone can find the venue that the event actually took place - in a newspaper or some other publication.

27-6 TMW pg.134 june 27.jpg (53.77 KiB) Viewed 1687 times

I apologize if I'm too long-winded.

Best,
Fran