Is the gold leaf original?

[OldRestorer]

I just bought this Vic IV and am wondering if it is all correct.
Any help is appreciated

https://www.ebay.com/itm/183776498601?ul_noapp=true

[alang]

I'm pretty sure the inside of the horn has been re-painted. The finish of the case may have been stripped on the outside. The turntable felt is a replacement. Not sure if reproducer and tonearm have original patina or have been polished to brass before? Otherwise it appears to be complete.

Andreas

[Jerry B.]

If by "correct" you mean factory original, the answer is no, it not factory original. As Andreas pointed out, someone attempted a less than satisfactory restoration. That can easily be remedied. The horn is the interesting feature. To my knowledge the Victor Company never gold leafed any metal horns. It should be easy to determine if it's actual gold leaf by taking it to a business that restores gold leaf items. If it's gold leaf you have an interesting dilemma. I would ask the gold leaf persons if they could estimate how long it has been on the horn. If it's actual gold leaf and it has been there since the machine was in its prime I would restore it with new gold leaf. I doubt if the seller provided any provenance. Before you do anything take photos so you have history from this time forward.

Collectors have their own opinions about modified machines. I like machines that were changed by the original owners. For example I have a common Victrola XI but it has chinoiserie decoration done by a business that specialized in such aftermarket finishes. I've been told by other collectors that it would be a nice Victrola but only after it was stripped and redone as a mahogany Victrola. When a guest in my home made that suggestion the authorities were called immediately. From my point of view you'd than have nothing more than an ordinary Victrola.

If that machine were mine, I would give it a full restoration. If I was convinced the gold was actual gold leaf and done years ago, I would keep it that way. Right now, in my opinion, the appearance of the gold is detrimental so I would ask the gold leaf expert about options. That's my two cents worth!

I think you have a great machine and a wonderful dilemma. I see that it is "pick up only" so stop for a visit if you come through Oregon.

[fran604g]

I don't know who bought it, but a Vic IV for $675 seems like a pretty good deal to me, either way.

Best,
Fran

[alang]

I don't know who bought it, but a Vic IV for $675 seems like a pretty good deal to me, either way.

Best,
Fran

I would agree with that.

Andreas

[OldRestorer]

I bought it...
I'm having a friend grab it for me to mail it. He lives over by Corona Del Mar California where the phonograph is.

[fran604g]

Congratulations!

Fran

[Jerry B.]

There is no doubt this was a good buy. I think what OldRestorer would like is suggestions on restoration and in particular the gold horn. I think that is how we could be most helpful. I gave my opinion but it's just that, an opinion. It is not the Phono Gospel According to Gerald. If you agree your name will be in my phono will. If you don't agree with me, I'm glad I've saved 45 years of used needles and your name will also be in my will. What do you think OldRestorer should do with the horn?

Jerry Blais

[fran604g]

What do you think OldRestorer should do with the horn?

Jerry Blais

Since you asked: if I determined that the gold leaf is as vintage as the rest of the Victor, I'd pick up a good horn, and keep the gold leaf horn on the side with it for posterity.

Fran

[VanEpsFan1914]

Just my 2 cents, adjusted for inflation, but I think the Victor has been altered a little bit. Still an amazing antique phonograph, in great shape (after all, the parts are all still there! How often does THAT happen?)

The outside of the horn is very original. Cool. I wish I had one of those round crank escutcheons...Hint hint if anyone has a junk pile. My Vic III blew up last year & I never found the escutcheon, and none of the replacements I found fit it.

So after the obligatory Mooch, I must notice a few things:

Back bracket stenciling is all gone. Paint appears to be old glossy asphaltum faded to semi-gloss. Should be easy to polish, but it looks as if someone polished all the gold and blue stripes off.

The reproducer rebuild is of the "honeybee" school--gob of wax on the middle of things.

Red felt on a machine that probably needs dark Forest Green felt.

Either they sprayed the tonearm gold, or it's just very tarnished.

The finish has been monkeyed with as well. In the shot in the ad showing the underside of the motorboard, the wood is a darker, glossier color, the "red mahogany" found under the lid of just about every VV-XI you can get your hands on. In short, typical original Victor finish. Looks great, as always.
Now the outside of Kirk's new Vic IV looks considerably lighter, and not as shiny. Perhaps it was bleached by sunlight or something, which would explain the loss of the stenciling & finish. Or, I think it more likely that someone went to modify it and lightened it by a too aggressive scrubbing....

So I think it's been tinkered with a little.

Still, for $675, a working Victor IV is a super great deal. I absolutely love my Victor horn machine and it's a regular old ordinary Model III. Any horn Victor has a one-word description--"Quality!" and they don't seem to ever wear out.

The plus side is, the "restruction" that Mr. Fixit carried out on this machine might have preserved it, kept it from being tossed by a relative or mined for spare parts. I bought a Columbia BN from Jerry B last year and have been correcting lots of interesting fixes...it's taken all skills from the cabinetmaker's art to the craft of the blacksmith to fix, clean, adjust, or fabricate the pieces for it. I'm still not done with the horn.
Had some lunatic NOT tinkered with the BN back in the 1980s it might have been junked by the old-guard of collectors who, as I have heard, might not have been great Columbia buffs.

But either way, they had fun and we can have fun too. It's all a win in the phonograph hobby!


Unsolicited ramblings from
Charles F.