What is the original horn for the early standard?

[OldRestorer]

I have been searching for an original horn for my square cabinet Standard.
I am getting conflicting results on which is the original horn for it.

Can anyone clarify what the original horn is?
Black funnel?
All brass witches cap?
Black witches cap?
Other?

Thanks,
Kirk

[TinfoilPhono]

I think it depends upon how early your suitcase Standard is. The only early ads and catalogs I have show it either with listening tubes or a funnel horn. However I suspect that later (ca. 1900) machines were likely fitted with a 14" all-brass horn. The black/brass horns came later.

It likely follows the pattern I have noted in early catalog drawings of the Edison H coin-op: the 1899 ads show a funnel horn, the 1900 ads show an all-brass horn.

[OldRestorer]

Thank you...
Mine is a pre-1900 2 clip.
I am thinking that this horn is going to be a hard one to find...
At least I know what I am looking for now..

[tomb]

I think it depends upon how early your suitcase Standard is. The only early ads and catalogs I have show it either with listening tubes or a funnel horn. However I suspect that later (ca. 1900) machines were likely fitted with a 14" all-brass horn. The black/brass horns came later.

It likely follows the pattern I have noted in early catalog drawings of the Edison H coin-op: the 1899 ads show a funnel horn, the 1900 ads show an all-brass horn.

Was the all brass horn also a funnel or a witches hat ?? I will be going to Stanton next month and I would like to pick one up for my suitcase too. Thanks Tom

[whitedogfive]

Many times, what was shown in an advertisement, was not what was eventually sold.
I have an 1899 four clip standard with a 15 inch all brass witch hat horn. You will find ads showing the all brass horns also, which based on my research, was the correct horn up until 1901, when the 14 inch black cones horn became available. It took me years to find a 15 inch all brass horn. There were may repro 14 inch all brass horns available, but I wanted the machine to be original.
Brass is soft and the nipple end of the horn many times would split from the tension created from being attached to the phonograph. Steel was stronger and along with shortening the horn by one inch, solved this spitting problem. I have seen many brass horns with splits along the sides, but I have yet to see a steel horn with any splits unless it was abused. Steel was also cheaper to produce than brass, thus the conversion.

[tomb]

I will be looking for the brass horn also but will settle for early witches hat. I have a very early suitcase two clip that is in the 2000 serial number range. It does not have a gear cover and has one screw per side on the reproducer hold in clips. I need to get it out to enjoy it but with the auto reproducer the sound is not the best. I have gotten used to my Amberola 50 sounds. I figure the best place will be one of the shows. I have also admired the glass horns. I saw someone who still makes them but are a little pricy. That little standard would look great with the glass horn but it would not be a period correct accessory. It would still look good. Tom

[Jerry B.]

What would anyone expect to pay for one of the funnel horns? You see 14" black & brass in the $50 to $100 range. An all brass one I'd expect to pay half again as much but the funnel horn price is a mystery to me. Jerry

[Zwebie]

What would anyone expect to pay for one of the funnel horns?

Jerry,

The last one that I saw for sale was in Don Maxwell's booth at Union 2 years ago.
It was a nice clean original and the price was $1400 (FIRM).

Cheers, Bob S.

[estott]

Many times, what was shown in an advertisement, was not what was eventually sold.
I have an 1899 four clip standard with a 15 inch all brass witch hat horn. You will find ads showing the all brass horns also, which based on my research, was the correct horn up until 1901, when the 14 inch black cones horn became available. It took me years to find a 15 inch all brass horn. There were may repro 14 inch all brass horns available, but I wanted the machine to be original.
Brass is soft and the nipple end of the horn many times would split from the tension created from being attached to the phonograph. Steel was stronger and along with shortening the horn by one inch, solved this spitting problem. I have seen many brass horns with splits along the sides, but I have yet to see a steel horn with any splits unless it was abused. Steel was also cheaper to produce than brass, thus the conversion.

It isn't just the softness- the Zinc on old brass goes brittle with age and the alloy "Crystallizes" - you sometimes can see patterns in a piece of polished metal and it then cracks. This is most obvious in stamped and drawn pieces where there was stress/.

[OldRestorer]

What would anyone expect to pay for one of the funnel horns?

Jerry,

The last one that I saw for sale was in Don Maxwell's booth at Union 2 years ago.
It was a nice clean original and the price was $1400 (FIRM).

Cheers, Bob S.

Why are there no photos of these funnels? I saw $400.00 and was ok with it.. Then I saw the 1 in front of it, lol....