Adelina Patti Cylinder at EMI Archives....

[Starkton]

I am pretty sure that I have the original "Gramophone 'Patti' Record" pressing, but so far I can't find it, but I'll put the photo as soon as I can find it.

Mark.

If it was mine I would have reserved a prominent place in my collector's cabinet, contemplating at it regularly. At the present, this place is occupied by the only existing shellac pressing of the 1889 Brahms cylinder transfer of 1935.

[transformingArt]

If it was mine I would have reserved a prominent place in my collector's cabinet, contemplating at it regularly. At the present, this place is occupied by the only existing shellac pressing of the 1889 Brahms cylinder transfer of 1935.

You actually have that Brahms recording?! I always tried to locate it, but it turned out to be unfindable. What does it look like? I mean, is it a private pressing or released by some company? (I actually wanted to ask you if you can post the picture of it, but since it is too valuable to show on the net, and I couldn't show you mine - including that Berliner Record I mentioned before - it would not be a fair business.)

How is the sound quality of that Brahms dubbing? I wonder how they made the dubbing from the recording. Did they recorded directly from cylinder phonograph or did they use some electronic devices? I heard that back in the late 30s, when William Seltsam of IRCC was transferring Mapleson cylinders and other cylinder recordings, he used a mechanism consisted of Edison cylinder player with an electronic early tone-arm mounted on top of Edison reproducer, thus the vibration on the diaphragm would be transferred as electric signals.

I have been searching for the Patti record for all these hours, but still didn't have luck. I now even suspect if I have sold it to somebody else, or among those 'casualties' which broke into pieces during the recent catastrophe I had - when my record shelves were totally collapsed because of the weight of records - , but I'm not sure - I can't remember! Anyway, I'm really, really sorry about this whole matter. I really want to show everyone the record, but I think I should try this later.

[Starkton]

You actually have that Brahms recording?! I always tried to locate it, but it turned out to be unfindable. What does it look like? I mean, is it a private pressing or released by some company? (I actually wanted to ask you if you can post the picture of it, but since it is too valuable to show on the net, and I couldn't show you mine - including that Berliner Record I mentioned before - it would not be a fair business.)

Yes, I have the Brahms recording. The transfer was made in January 1935 in the Lindström recording studio on a 10" disc. It was never intended for release and literally only a handful copies were pressed for internal archival use.

I have investigated the whole matter and already held a lecture on the Brahms cylinder and its transfer on disc in May before a selected audience of about 40 international experts. At the occasion I showed the label which is of the standard type used for a certain sound archive. All further information is handwritten with ink. From the positive feedback I received from the audience, I derive that Brahms was sufficiently heard through the constant noise and the sound quality was better than generally expected.

The shellac itself was found years ago on a flew market, changed hands several times and ended up in the collection of a connoisseur. Luckily it was rarely played and only bears a few insignificant marks. Of course such a unique record is not for sale. But finally, last year, I managed to trade it for several unissued test pressings of an important violinist.

A renowned specialist has digitized the recording. Besides the original pressing I now have the raw file and several more or less filtered versions. To make it clear, the cylinder was severely deteriorated already in 1935 due to repeated playing with an unsuitable reproducer. But after concentrated hearing it becomes obvious that the piano is more cleary recognizable than on the file published by the Vienna phonogram archive. This file originates from the dubbing of an analogue reel tape from the acetate in the British National Sound archive.

I am still undecided how the recording was done, but I tend to believe that a then high quality microphone was put in front of a phonograph horn. An article about my findings, including a picture of the label, will be published in December or January. I have already forwarded a label scan and all sound files to the curator of the archive to which the record originally belonged and from which it was taken away by the chaos of war. Please understand that I don't go into further detail right now.

Too bad that you couldn't locate the Patti disc. I have never seen it and hoped that my long wait came to an end. A suggestion: before wetting my collector's mouth could you please check the availability of your treasures first

[gramophone78]

TransformingArt,I have a question regarding classical issues.This is a Tamango record I found.I have been told that the sleeve is very hard to find.Is this true??.
Starkton.....talk about "wetting mouths"........I'm still waiting to see pics of that wonderful "Gibson" coin-op you have!!!

[transformingArt]

transformingArt,I have a question regarding classical issues.This is a Tamango record I found.I have been told that the sleeve is very hard to find.Is this true??.

Oh, This is the first time I have ever saw a TAMAGNO SLEEVE. I have read about this sleeve from a 1951 article of Hobbies Magazine, but this is the first time I actually see one. I believe it is really valuable - it survived for more than 100 years, you know. Besides, I believe that selection is pretty scarce among the Tamagno records.

I'm pretty sure that Starkton would know much better about its value than I do, but surely, thanks for posting the picture of this rare find.

[OrthoSean]

Tamagno sleeves are scarce, not exactly "rare" though. They turn up in record auction lists rather regularly. I have a couple of them that cost me nothing. On the open market, the sleeves alone can bring $50-75, but I've seen them sell for more and also less.

Sean

[gramophone78]

Thanks for the info Sean.It's the only one I found and it was free in a pile of records down in Mexico.Could I see one of yours.Also,I was told that there were others,like a Patti sleeve and a Melba sleeve.I know they had labels but,I have never seen a sleeve.Have you??.

[OrthoSean]

It will take me some digging to get at my Tamagno sleeves, as the "S-Z" 10 inch classical section of my collection is blocked by two rather large machines awaiting some work right now. I'll try to get at them soon enough, but they're identical to yours.

I'm not sure if there were Patti sleeves, but I'd bet all the $5 Vitor discs had them. There were Melba sleeves, very similar in appearance to the Tamagno type, only black in color. A friend of mine has several (!) of them, I don't have any, but I'll turn one up someday to put one of the mauve label Melbas in.

Sean

[Starkton]

Tamagno sleeves are scarce, not exactly "rare" though. They turn up in record auction lists rather regularly.

Yes, indeed!
I can't remember exactly but I think I have seen a Patti sleeve which was pink. No doubt, Patti sleeves are the scarcest of the group.

I am still waiting for a Tamagno, Patti or Melba sleeve without tears and creases!

[OrthoSean]

In fact, Nauck has a Tamagno disc and sleeve in his current auction list. Lot 2541, it's a Monarch pressing with a decent looking sleeve. The MB is $100, a little high IMO.

www.78rpm.com if you want to see it (click on the "Highlights" section)

And, yes, I emailed another collector this morning who verified that there was indeed a Patti sleeve. He's going to send me photos of at least a Melba sleeve and a Patti if he has one when he's back at home in a couple of days. I'll post them when I get them.

Sean