Edison Concert Phonograph With Unknown parts

[Mormon S]

Thanks for posting the EB catalog. Now I have some documentation on my duplex:

D1.jpg

At some point in its past a combination attachment was added.
Lined up is the extension tube to play 2" records, Model C, Model H & Model D reproducers

D2.jpg

Setup to play 2 or 4 minute 2" cylinders


Chuck

but there isn't a picture or description of a D , so what was a D for ?

I beleive its basically the same as a model c, but the tail weight has less of an angle to compensate for the larger size of a concert cylinder. Not sure if there are any other differences.

Martin

[ChuckA]

Similar to a Model C with a shallow tail weight bend and a stylus bar like a Model B. Gives a bit more volume
from a concert record due to the added weight.

Chuck

[soundgen]

So does thomas1899 need a B reproducer and would this play Concert records ? As well as ordinary cylinders with an extension tube ?

[ChuckA]

Considering his still has the adjusting screw boss on the carriage he should be looking for a Model B or
automatic for it. He also needs to find the 2 hold down clips and 4 screws in addition to the reproducer adjusting screw. The extension tube may be the hardest item to find.


Chuck

[Dulcetto]

This actual machine was sold at Littleton Auctions , Evesham , UK three weeks ago on 7th September 2019. It was lot 162 , sold for hammer price GBP 540 plus buyer's premium made total of GBP 650. Picture shown of it in the auction room during pre-sale viewing. As previous posters have mentioned , its an unusual case for an EB Concert -- almost certainly a Columbia case --in my opinion probably married to the mechanism many years ago by an entrepreneurial retailer for a second hand sale or perhaps an owner who obtained the case secondhand because he had damaged the original case . Certainly looks as if the case has been with the mechanism for most of its life . Just to be clear -- and original Edison Bell catalogue literature can be confusing sometimes , Edison Bell would have sold this termed as as a " Concert " not a " Duplex" although it has the slip on Concert mandrel over the standard mandrel. The defining feature which makes it a "Concert " is the Triton motor. But >> Look at the original Edison Bell catalogue pictures of the " Concert " -- the first illustration of the " Concert " shows a slip - on Concert mandrel , but look closely, the second illustration of the " Concert " shows a fixed Concert mandrel ! so even original Edison Bell literature can be mis-leading to the uninitiated. As has been mentioned , the missing parts on this example such as the extension tube required so as to play standard cylinders , will not be easy to find. Regarding reproducer types , this machine may well have been sold new fitted with the Edison "Automatic" reproducer , but Edison - Bell also supplied their own versions of the Edison Automatic ,which were probably British made, also I have seen an Edison - Bell version of an Edison Model D ( it was sold in the Roger Thorne sale in UK ) that would have been intended for Concert machines. A Model B or Model D reproducers will of course work fine , but care should be taken to ensure that the clearance of the stylus bar is correct as this is quite critical when playing Concert cylinders so as not to damage the record groove . Dulcetto

[Dulcetto]

Here's the auction photo

[Dulcetto]

Furthermore to my previous two posts on this thread , look at the text given in the 1902 Edison Bell catalogue for the " Concert " machine. It clearly informs the reader that the machine is now "recently improved and will record or reproduce any record large or small ". I would suggest the word " improved " is alluding to the ability of the latest version of the machine to play Concert AND Standard cylinders via a slip - on Concert mandrel, whereas previous versions of the " Concert " as sold by EB prior to 1902 had a fixed Concert mandrel only. That would account for the illustration in the 1902 catalogue that shows a fixed mandrel -- obviously EB or their printer used an older printing block. So to recap , Edison - Bell vended "Concert" phonographs have a three spring Triton motor , earlier examples having a fixed Concert mandrel whereas later versions ( presumably from 1902 onwards , as that year's catalogue alludes to the latest " improved " machine ) having a slip-on Concert mandrel. The Edison - Bell "Duplex"
( also sold by Edison- Bell as the " Edison New Duplex " ) has the slip - on Concert mandrel , but a slightly modified single -spring " Home " motor fitted in place of the Triton motor. Confused ? -- takes a little while to get to grips with Edison - Bell's terminology ! My own example of the Edison - Bell Duplex has an Edison- Bell license plate naming it as " The New Duplex ". Dulcetto

[soundgen]

It may be a genuine factory output though as Edisonia sold Graphaphones and merged with Edison Bell in 1898 , so maybe a Graphaphone "box" may have been used up with a Concert mechanism rather than discarding it ? A more plausible reason for the marriage than " married to the mechanism many years ago by an entrepreneurial retailer for a second hand sale or perhaps an owner who obtained the case secondhand because he had damaged the original case "

[Dulcetto]

Mike , you may well be correct that this phonograph came out of the factory in its present case , but I did give my previous posting some careful consideration and I therefore doubt that it did for good reason. Note the four screw-holes in the corners of the bed-plate. Those signify a later mechanism that was intended to be housed in a " new style " type case that was the norm from 1901 onwards . The bed-plates of earlier Concert machines ,at a time when Edison Bell was dealing in Columbia goods a few years beforehand) do not have these screw -holes as the mechanism just rested on the case - edges. Note too there are no screws in those screw- holes -- it would be interesting to know if there are any corresponding holes in the wooden case.
Also , you should not deem my explanation to be of less plausibility -- many retail shops of long ago had " secondhand " departments where goods could be returned or exchanged and then sold on again to those who could not afford new prices. The machines that we find today have in some instances been through many hands or indeed acquired much history along the way -- who knows what may have happened in the intervening 100 or more years ? You must have over the years you have been trading seen at least a few examples of machines in home made or repaired cases where the machine had been modified / altered / " saved " at some point after it was bought new. I therefore stand by my reasoning as quite plausible in any event unless any evidence to the contrary is forthcoming. Perhaps you should not be quite so dismissive of alternative ideas ? Regards Dulcetto

[Dulcetto]

Furthermore , I also wonder why the original poster who says he is 13 years old , told us he " came across a concert phonograph " without any mention that it was actually bought at auction only a matter of 2 or 3 weeks ago ? Why the secret squirrel ? perhaps the op may like to enlighten us further as to whether he bought it , or bought it from someone else ( who bought it - at auction !!) . Although these Concert machines have sold in the past for much higher figures than the £650 paid for this one , one should also wonder why other collectors or dealers did not bid higher. Well the answer must surely be the incorrect case and the missing parts which seldom " just turn up " for Concert machines. Good luck to the new owner , and I hope he manages to find the parts ( and advice ) he needs to complete this fine machine back to its former glory, but of course it may take him a while to do that. Dulcetto