Which Should I Do First?

[phonojim]

I'm working on the cabinet for a first style VV-XI. The horn doors in particular have badly curled veneer and I'm wondering whether I should Gojo clean them first or glue the veneer first. I will be using thinned liquid hide glue. I don't want to risk getting Gojo on the surfaces to be glued but I don't want to risk getting glue on surfaces which have not been cleaned. The veneer on this is fairly thick and therefore stiff? I think I can clamp it without breaking it but if anyone has any hints, I would appreciate hearing them. Also, if anyone has any quartered oak veneer that they don't need, I could use some of that, too as the veneer is completely gone on the rear panel.

Thanks,
Jim

[audiophile102]

I'm working on the cabinet for a first style VV-XI. The horn doors in particular have badly curled veneer and I'm wondering whether I should Gojo clean them first or glue the veneer first. I will be using thinned liquid hide glue. I don't want to risk getting Gojo on the surfaces to be glued but I don't want to risk getting glue on surfaces which have not been cleaned. The veneer on this is fairly thick and therefore stiff? I think I can clamp it without breaking it but if anyone has any hints, I would appreciate hearing them. Also, if anyone has any quartered oak veneer that they don't need, I could use some of that, too as the veneer is completely gone on the rear panel.

Thanks,
Jim

Get a long thin knife and coat both sides of the blade with the glue. Slide it in behind the veneer and when it looks sufficiently coated, clamp it with wood blocks to protect the door. Use several clamps so you have even pressure. Be sure to wipe as much access glue away as possible. After 24 hours you can remove the clamps and use Gojo. Glue is always a mess so be sure to have a roll of paper towels near by. Good luck with your project!

[wjw]

Jim, I'm interested in why you want to clean the wood before you glue and clamp. Thanks- bill

[tomb]

I normally glue wood first then clean it to reduce any cleaning damage. On cloth type materials I clean first then glue next as the cleaning sometimes loosens up the fabric corners. Just use common sense on the repairs to figure out what will do the least damage to the item on the procedure. Tom

[startgroove]

Agree with Tom. In my opinion the best order of procedures is to glue first, then clean. If the Go-Jo gets between the layers of veneer, it could prevent glue from adhering. After applying the glue, any glue that squeezes out should be wiped away immediately, using a dampened rag or sponge.

Another method is to remove the entire layer of loose veneer and clean it and the main part, then glue and clamp. Use pins to keep the two parts from sliding out of alignment.

Cheers, Russie

PS, that door has the appearance of fumed oak. If it is, you will have a hard time finding matching veneer, unless someone is parting out a fumed oak cabinet that has peeling veneer.

[phonojim]

Thanks. The consensus seems to be to glue first, which was my first thought also. However, I know that there are many members here who have much more experience with cabine rejuvenation than I do which is why I was asking for advice.

@Russie: you are correct. The finish is fumed oak, however the missing veneer is on the rear of the cabinet, so I'll be able to display it with its back against the wall. I'm hoping to find some old quartersawn white oak veneer and experiment with stains to get as close of a match as possible.

This machine is an early production table model VV-XI (serial #1080). It is complete except for 1 bun foot and the aforementioned veneer. The motor runs well and all of the gold parts have cleaned up well after a soak in ammoniated clock cleaner. I think this one will be a keeper once I get it finished.


Jim

[startgroove]

Jim, I think that is a good plan. I just checked Ebay and found numerous oak veneers, red, white, quarter sawn, etc. There are even some Fumed Oak veneers. Alternately, your plan to experiment with stains to mimic Fumed Oak sounds interesting. If you do, would you mind posting the results here? (I've a Fumed Oak cabinet that needs some patching. Maybe I could learn from your experience.) Cheers, Russie

PS, Does your cabinet have a finish on it? Mine seems like it does not. The grain is open, and the finish is somewhat dull.

[alang]

PS, Does your cabinet have a finish on it? Mine seems like it does not. The grain is open, and the finish is somewhat dull.

There was a thread a while ago where this was discussed. If I remember correctly, a statement was made that the fumed oak finish only had a wax finish on it.

Found it: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... wax#p57081

Not sure, just looking at that old thread, your finish looks quite dark for fumed oak. Might be weathered or English oak?

Andreas

[JerryVan]

I say glue first! I've never used hide glue, but I can tell you that a good wood glue cleans up very easily with a damp rag if any oozes out. Even if a bit sneaks behind a clamp where it's hard to wipe away, it can usually be softened and removed with the damp cloth after the clamps are removed. (Just don't wait a week later to do it.)

[wjw]

Jim, regarding the staining to match fumed oak. You probably know it won't happen with oil-based. Water or alcohol dyes are the thing as you can experiment with dilutions. Best thing about dyes is that you can go over same area for further darkening. I've never tried this with oak so I hope members with the experience will advise.
- bill