Pleated diaphragm players?

[Phototone]

I believe it was Pathé (possibly others) that made a pleated diaphragm setup that looked like a paper fan, or early magnetic radio speaker..coupled to the stylus. I have seen them before, but I have never ever heard one play. Does anyone have one that can tell me how they sound? Is there any video or audio file on the web on one of these?

[Valecnik]

I had one. They sound pretty good. Here's on demonstrated.

[youtubehq]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEHDzzolIIk[/youtubehq]

[OrthoSean]

Yeah, they're "Actuelle" machines, I have one and I really like the sound, especially with Pathé vertical cut records.

Sean

[Brad]

Our own Brianu played his for me when I visited him last summer. I was amazed at the sound clarity and volume. A very innovative design, albeit fragile.

[OrthoFan]

I believe it was Pathé (possibly others) that made a pleated diaphragm setup that looked like a paper fan, or early magnetic radio speaker..coupled to the stylus. I have seen them before, but I have never ever heard one play. Does anyone have one that can tell me how they sound? Is there any video or audio file on the web on one of these?

The pleated diaphragm design was adopted by The Gramophone Co., LTD for a few short-lived models, such as the HMV 460.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnEH4AyqW1M[/youtube]

Based on what I've read/heard, while the Lumiere diaphragms performed very well when acoustically recorded records were played, they were not up to the challenges imposed by the newly introduced (1925) electrically recorded records. (Oddly enough, the one playing in the above clip seems to handle a mid-1930s record very well!)

After the new process records were introduced, the Gramophone Company re-used some of the "Lumiere cabinets," replacing the pleated diaphragms with more conventional, though re-designed, soundboxes, tonearms and horns. For instance, the 460 became the 461 -- SEE: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 0&start=30 )

In the US, the Victor Talking Machine Company, which had also acquired the rights to use the Lumiere diaphragm, did some experiments -- as noted in the Victor Data Book, by Robert Baumbach -- but never produced a cabinet model victrola using the technology. Victor DID, however, manufacture a stand-alone loudspeaker for use with radios that was fitted with the Lumiere diaphragm, and known as the Victor Loud Speaker Model 1.

Quite a lot of information online; do a google search for:

Lumiere diaphragm gramophone

[Phototone]

Thank you for the videos. I was "hamstrung" in my searching because I had forgotten the actual "name" of the technology. Actuelle.

[JohnM]

Thank you for the videos. I was "hamstrung" in my searching because I had forgotten the actual "name" of the technology. Actuelle.

Please note that while the Actuélle paper-cone 'diffusor' and the Lumiere pleated-paper diaphragm are superficially similar, they are distinctively different designs and shouldn't be confused. "Actuélle" is not the correct term for pleated-paper diaphragm machines.

[Phototone]

Thank you for the videos. I was "hamstrung" in my searching because I had forgotten the actual "name" of the technology. Actuelle.

Please note that while the Actuélle paper-cone 'diffusor' and the Lumiere pleated-paper diaphragm are superficially dimilar, they are distinctively different designs and shouldn't be confused. "Actuélle" is not the correct term for pleated-paper diaphragm machines.

Yes, I know technically you are correct. They would probably most correctly be termed "direct radiators" but I doubt a google search would turn up these units from those words.

[Kirkwood]

Here's a pic of the Victor pleated diaphragm radio speaker from the (mid ?) 1920s. Many thanks to Buford C. for his expert dead-on replacement of the paper diaphragms, both front and back. The rear diaphragm vibrates in sympathetic resonance to the front, the sound is "nice". These speakers don't pump out the volume and the bass like a modern cone speaker! I've had people look at the Actuelle cone and some of the larger radio cones and think that I'd get marvelous bass response. The mechanisms that drive the cone just didn't allow for that back then. Of course, maybe people had an appreciation for the wider appeal of music back then without the incessant thump-thump-thump of a bass track permeating every song. By the way, the other speaker in the background is a Brunswick radio speaker of the later 1920s.

[Phototone]

Here's a pic of the Victor pleated diaphragm radio speaker from the (mid ?) 1920s. Many thanks to Buford C. for his expert dead-on replacement of the paper diaphragms, both front and back. The rear diaphragm vibrates in sympathetic resonance to the front, the sound is "nice". These speakers don't pump out the volume and the bass like a modern cone speaker! I've had people look at the Actuelle cone and some of the larger radio cones and think that I'd get marvelous bass response. The mechanisms that drive the cone just didn't allow for that back then. Of course, maybe people had an appreciation for the wider appeal of music back then without the incessant thump-thump-thump of a bass track permeating every song. By the way, the other speaker in the background is a Brunswick radio speaker of the later 1920s.

Radio speakers of the 1920's had to be able to produce reasonable volume levels with the very small output power of the tube radios of the day. Generally a Watt or less. This precluded any reasonable bass response.