Need help identifying this Victor external horn phonograph

[Jerry B.]

Better i leave the Victors to you collectors.

One of my big complaints with the garbage that is passed as authentic is the fact that honest and reputable dealers, like yourself, shy away from machines altogether. I have no complaint with an honest profit made with a dealer spends time searching and repairing antiques, and possibly pays overhead to run a business. We, as collectors, miss out as do reputable dealers when talking machines are avoided due to lack of knowledge and the possibility of buying a worthless crapophones. Crapophones are nothing less than a cancer to our hobby.

Jerry B.

[brianu]

I set my ebay sniper late at night and forgot about this one. I should have looked into it closer. I have decided to try to cancel the order. It was listed as Victor.

So get it cheap, vet it here, then back out of the sale. Cool. Granted, it’s a crap machine but not all sellers realize that. Isn’t one of the long-standing eBay complaints here about non paying buyers?

[Raphael]

I set my ebay sniper late at night and forgot about this one. I should have looked into it closer. I have decided to try to cancel the order. It was listed as Victor.

So get it cheap, vet it here, then back out of the sale. Cool. Granted, it’s a crap machine but not all sellers realize that. Isn’t one of the long-standing eBay complaints here about non paying buyers?

If the machine was listed as an antique Victor, I think he has every right to cancel the deal, regardless of when he does it. The seller misrepresented the product. It’s better than paying, taking delivery, and then returning it as “Item Not As Described” which results in wasted time and money all around.

Raphael

[epigramophone]

Be careful playing records on a thing like this. The tonearm pivots aren't as smooth as an original Victor's and the reproducer (if it's the cheap HIS MASTER'S VOICE fake that looks like an old Thorens) is probably stuck with pressed-tin bridges instead of pivots for the needle bar, destroying lateral compliance and also all your records.

Yes, it was a fake--but if you want a real horn model Victor I'm sure you'll find one soon enough. But is that a Garrard No. 50 motor I spy in there? Those things run great!

The motor could be a Garrard, but not a No.50 which has a single spring. Time to post the Crapophone Guide once again ;

[VanEpsFan1914]

I'll be on here a little later tonight trying to make a "How To Spot A Real Victor Phonograph" guide.

Quick tricks don't click, need Vic pics fix.

[Sidewinder]

For anything that looks like a His Masters Voice Gramophone / Phonograph that you are interested in the "His Masters Gramophone" book is invaluable. For example on pages 249 to 251 one can see all transfers used.

The logo's used on the machines are all exceptionally documented, and the one in the photo above, for example, was introduced for cabinet and portable machines in 1928, after open horn machines were no longer around. (good that the "close lid whilst playing" note was removed from the bottom of the logo!)

Also, HMV machines were manufactured to a high quality.

So a clever faker may use the book as a reference to create a year appropriate logo. Well the book illustrates all the english made models - helping you to know what you are looking at.

Its by Brian Oakley & Christopher Proudfoot.

BTW the picture guide higher in the thread is excellent!

[drh]

Be careful playing records on a thing like this. The tonearm pivots aren't as smooth as an original Victor's and the reproducer (if it's the cheap HIS MASTER'S VOICE fake that looks like an old Thorens) is probably stuck with pressed-tin bridges instead of pivots for the needle bar, destroying lateral compliance and also all your records.

Yes, it was a fake--but if you want a real horn model Victor I'm sure you'll find one soon enough. But is that a Garrard No. 50 motor I spy in there? Those things run great!

The motor could be a Garrard, but not a No.50 which has a single spring. Time to post the Crapophone Guide once again ;

One more clue not present in the diagram: the tonearm on the machine that started this thread is a Victrola arm mounted upside down--the U tube curves to the reproducer on its right, not its left as it should.

[OrthoFan]

I need to stick to Victrolas, my specialty, especially the 16s & 17s. I love working on those machines, as of now i have three 17s and four 16s, i had four 17s but just sold one Monday. I also have 4-5 assorted assorted 100s & XIs i was planning on restoring but don't want to put the time into at this point., I am not really into the external horn Victors and really don't know why i even bid on it. Better i leave the Victors to you collectors.

Actually, genuine Victor Talking Machines are relatively easy to spot, once you become familiar with the product line. They share the same high quality components and cabinetry workmanship as the Victrolas. As with Victrolas, (most of) the various models are marked with an ID plate containing the model and serial numbers. There are other similarities such as the motors used, as well as the sound boxes and the position of the tonearm's crook.

The oft referred to Victor Victrola page -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/ -- is a good place to start.

(This page lists most of the Victor outside horn models, as well as Victrolas: http://www.victor-victrola.com/new_page_2.htm )

Another excellent reference is Robert Baumbach's "Look for the Dog" which is available from a number of online sellers -- http://www.mulhollandpress.com/styled-5 ... index.html

Of the six most commonly found outside horn Victor models, -- I, II, III, IV, V, and VI -- only two were fitted with mahogany cabinets, the Victor IV and the Victor VI. (The Victor V was available in mahogany very late in its production, but these are extremely rare.) The rest --I, II, III, V-- were available in high quality quarter-sawed oak cabinets.

The nice thing about the outside horn models is that they tend to retain and even escalate in value over the years. Also, they pump out a tremendous sound compared to the smaller Victrola models of the period.

HTH,

OrthoFan

[zenith82]

Actually, genuine Victor Talking Machines are relatively easy to spot, once you become familiar with the product line....

This.

After you've seen and examined a few authentic machines in person, they become easier to discern from the modern crapophone. Synching up with a collector in your area or attending a show would probably be your best bet for getting familiar with external horn machines.