Fiber gear or no--Question about a Vic I motor

[jboger]

This post is actually a continuation of another post I initiated with regards to how one removes a mainspring from a VV-IV barrel. Here's a link to that other thread:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=42990. I decided, however to start a new thread because the topic is a different machine, viz. a later model Vic I. I've worked mostly on Columbias, which have a fiber gear, and taken to heart not to oil this gear because it could lead to its deterioration. That makes very good sense to me.

Now I have a Vic I, a later model. I've included a picture which see. I've placed a rectangle around the gear in question. It seems to be a brass wheel, and therefore might be safe to oil. But I have seen metallic looking composites before. Could anyone shed some light here? Is it safe to put some lubricant on this wheel?

Thanks, as always.

[JerryVan]

It's brass and needs oil. Fiber gears need oil as well...

[jboger]

Jerry: thank you for your response. But you've thrown me wrt oiling any fiber gear. For example, from another thread:


"One thing to look for in the motor- Columbia used a fiber gear to drive the governor- if this gets soaked with oil it can soften & strip out. In all other respects Columbia motors are very reliable." (http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... il#p240244)

[jboger]

Well, I had forgotten that this Vic I retained a diagram of the motor with oiling instructions. This is inside the case. Lo and behold, Victor's instructions were to apply vaseline to the governor worm. And so, if this were good enough for Victor--and Jerry--then it's good enough for me. (I do believe it best not to oil a Columbia fiber gear, however.)

I blessed (or cursed) to live in an area with a plethora of local auctions at which all manner of things turn up including external horn disk and cylinder players. For the most part these are Columbias, but Victors as well. These are often in untouched condition and need work. About a year ago or so a Vic VI with a beautiful wood horn showed up about 30 miles away. Too rich for me.

And this past Monday a Vic I showed up. I took a gamble that the only problem was a busted mainspring. This turned out to be true. It also turned out to be true that I could interchange a VV-IV mainspring with this Vic I, which I did. Now the energy stored, and the power dissipated, in a mainspring is a function of three parameters: length, thickness, and width. I did not measure the length of the mainsprings, but the other parameters between the mainsprings were the same. And the diameter of the barrels also matched. So it was a successful transplant.

Here are some pictures. What I'm not clear about is which version of the Vic I this is. It takes a 10-inch platter, and the braking mechanism is different from early Victor models. I have yet to insert a piece of padding for the brake.

[Lucius1958]

Here are some pictures. What I'm not clear about is which version of the Vic I this is. It takes a 10-inch platter, and the braking mechanism is different from early Victor models. I have yet to insert a piece of padding for the brake.

That's very much like the brake on the Victor I motor I got recently, except for the position of the pad: mine has the 8-inch beveled turntable. Is there a comprehensive guide to all the variations?

-Bill

[jboger]

I believe there is, but someone else is in a better position than I to make a recommendation. There is a comprehensive article on Victor motors by Braker. My motor is a Type CM. Reading, just now, the author notes that the same 1-inch wide mainspring was used in several models including the VV-IV. Although I measured the mainsprings and had already transferred one from a VV-IV into the Vic I, it's still nice to read this.

Here's a picture of the brake:

[Phonolair]

What I'm not clear about is which version of the Vic I this is. It takes a 10-inch platter, and the braking mechanism is different from early Victor models. I have yet to insert a piece of padding for the brake.

This type Victor I is usually referred to as the large case late Victor 1. The case style looks like the Victor II but smaller.
According to the Victor Data Book by Baumbach. This Victor I with the 10" turntable and #1203 round brake ran roughly serial #3502 thru #30101. About 1910 - 1914. Type B, C & D when the brake was changed. This type brake was used on other Victor models also. Victor MS, P and O come to mind.

Larry Crandell

[edisonphonoworks]

My Victor 0 has the same brake too!

[Victrolacollector]

As for oiling fiber gears, I personally don’t think it is a good idea to oil a fiber gear. However, I have seen manuals printed for Starr machines which depict oil or Vaseline to be added to the fiber governor drive gear (I forget which one). I have one that was cleaned and never oiled, after a couple of months one of the gear teeth broke. Maybe they need a little oil to keep them from breaking.

Back when these machines were new and parts were being made, I’m thinking there was no emphasis on safeguarding this gear. I am not sure what is best now, but I packed a bunch of grease in my motor of quality and there has been no damage to the gear so far. I avoid playing the fiber gear machines a lot, they are just too prone to wear in my opinion.

[jboger]

Victrolacollector: You raise some very good points. When it's clear to me the gear is a metal, I believe it's OK to oil such a gear. This particular gear looks to be brass, and Braker in his article on Victor motors states that it's brass. But he could be wrong. This goes back to my first post. This gear looks to be brass, but I have seen metallic-looking composites before. I have little intention to play this machine. Perhaps I will degrease it. That may be the best course of action.

Anyway, the S/N is 9703B.