Acoustic Phonograph for Playing Electric Recordings

[Uncle Vanya]

That's certainly reasonable for the 4-4. looks like it would clean up nicely. If I had to choose from your list of inquiries, I'd be after the 8-4. Nice machines, large, yes, but they sound REALLY nice without being the size of a Credenza if space is a concern. I think you'd be far happier with it for sound, plus I like the 8-4's looks in general. At $300, I don't know that you're getting ripped off, mine was in the neighborhood of $250 and it needed a great deal of cleaning up, so I can't say $300 is terrible depending on everything else. The 4-4 takes up a larger footprint with a smaller horn, so IMO it would be a no-brainer.

Keep in mind I'm an orthophonic obsessive, so I AM a little biased

I own a Cortez, a VT 810 and several orthophonics of "larger" size up to the 10-50 and they're all space hogs, but I certainly do enjoy each one for it's own qualities.

Good luck!

Sean

The 8-4? Ah! The “bowling alley Victrola”. I call it such because every example that I’ve owned or heard has a pretty strong resonance at about 160 cycles, which makes the machine sound as if it is being played in a bowling alley. This resonance is largely eliminated if the reproducer is properly rebuilt with a soft rubber isolator. The 8-4 is fairly deep front to back, and wants a large room. It’s replacement in the product line, the 8-12, is far shallower, and is to my eye better proportioned.

What general part of the country are you in?

Uncle Vanya,
I’m in Connecticut.

You’ve given me something to think about with the 8-4. Does anyone have the general dimensions of the 8-4?

Is the 8-4 louder than the 4-4 or 4-7 or are they about the same?
Thanks again for all your help.

The little straight “Western Electric” horn machines, like the Consolette, the Colony, and the early production Granada are the loudest of the aorthophonic machines, though they are rather deficient in bass response. They are perfect for playing acoustically period discs, though.

[VictorVV-X]

Hello again all! Thank you all for your help, it has been greatly appreciated!

I have been leaning more toward the 8-4. I have been informed by the seller that the reproducer needs the rear gasket, and have received pictures of the reproducer which actually looks like it is in good condition.

Though looking over the pictures, I was curious as to why the motorboard seems to be a different color compared to the rest of the finish under the lid?

Is this normal, or is it possible that another phonograph's motorboard and motor was installed at some point?

Also, what are the dimensions of the 8-4? Is it more narrow and taller than the average console configuration; such as a 4-4?

Thanks again.
Gerald.

[AmberolaAndy]

Hello again all! Thank you all for your help, it has been greatly appreciated!

I have been leaning more toward the 8-4. I have been informed by the seller that the reproducer needs the rear gasket, and have received pictures of the reproducer which actually looks like it is in good condition.

VV 8-4 2.JPG

VV 8-4 3.JPG

Though looking over the pictures, I was curious as to why the motorboard seems to be a different color compared to the rest of the finish under the lid?

VV 8-4 5.JPG

Is this normal, or is it possible that another phonograph's motorboard and motor was installed at some point?

Also, what are the dimensions of the 8-4? Is it more narrow and taller than the average console configuration; such as a 4-4?

Thanks again.
Gerald.

This one doesn’t look too bad. When I got my 8-4 I practically had to rebuild it with donor parts sourced from eBay. The tonearm looks like it came from an earlier Credenza model when they used the self supporting arm instead of a bracket to support it. At least it’s an orthophonic tonearm and not a tonearm from a pre-1925 machine which was the usual fix when the back brackets broke.

[OrthoFan]

The general specs for the VV-8-4 can be found on this page -- http://www.victor-victrola.com/8-4.htm (Note, the image on this page cuts off the "bun" feet. You can find other images by doing a Google image search for Victrola VV-8-4.

As you can see, the 8-4 is an upright Victrola and has rather a boxy shape. The dimensions, according to "Look for the Dog," by Robert Baumbach are:

45 inches high
28.75 inches wide
22.75 inches deep

In contrast, the VV-4-4 is a console model ( http://www.victor-victrola.com/4-4.htm ) The dimensions are:
34 inches high
34 inches wide
21.5 inches deep

As for the replacement tonearm, it looks to be the right length, and since the base is cast-iron, you'll have no pot metal issues. If removed, you should see a thick felt washer, heavily greased or oiled, positioned around the coupling to the pipe leading to the horn.

I'm not sure if the motor board is a replacement--sometimes there are variations in color due to age--but if it is, it came from another 8-4 model.

Here's a photo I culled from Google images:

Capture.JPG (39.4 KiB) Viewed 1171 times

When introduced in 1926, the VV-8-4 was a slightly smaller alternative to the Credenza (8-30). It's fitted with a horn approximately five feet in length (I've been told by some collectors) with a large mouth opening about ⅔ that of the Credenza's mouth. I don't know about the "bowling alley" sound quality mentioned above, but the one I listened to sounded very impressive, with a pretty solid bass response, though not as deep as that of the Credenza, which had a six foot tone chamber.

HTH,
OrthoFan

[VictorVV-X]

AmberolaAndy and OrthoFan,

Thank you both for your help! It really helps!

[drh]

Just as a thought, have you considered adding a Victrola no. 4 reproducer to your existing acoustic-records style Victrola(s)? I bought one not long back, and while I've not experimented with it extensively, it gave very good results in my all-too-brief testing of electric recordings on a Victor V. Might be a way to get "electric capability" without the expense and space required for an entirely new machine.

[OrthoSean]

I'm puzzled by the "bowling alley" remark as well. Mine sounds equally as good as my Credenza after doing the usual sealing and maintenance. Even before I did any of that, I was impressed by the sound, even without a rebuilt reproducer. The original on mine still hasn't been rebuilt and likely won't be unless I can find a spot in the house for it, for now it's my garage / work area phono and it serves me very well there. On a nice warm day, I'll play through a pile of duplicate scroll Victors out there and for fun stroll the 65 feet out to the street just to see how clearly the 8-4 can be heard, it's very clear! Luckily, I don't really have any close neighbors unless you count the scores deer, rabbits, coyotes and foxes

Sean

[Uncle Vanya]

I'm puzzled by the "bowling alley" remark as well. Mine sounds equally as good as my Credenza after doing the usual sealing and maintenance. Even before I did any of that, I was impressed by the sound, even without a rebuilt reproducer. The original on mine still hasn't been rebuilt and likely won't be unless I can find a spot in the house for it, for now it's my garage / work area phono and it serves me very well there. On a nice warm day, I'll play through a pile of duplicate scroll Victors out there and for fun stroll the 65 feet out to the street just to see how clearly the 8-4 can be heard, it's very clear! Luckily, I don't really have any close neighbors unless you count the scores deer, rabbits, coyotes and foxes

Sean

I sealed the horn in mine, and noted an odd resonance in the upper bass or lower midrange. Took one of my frequency sweep records, and not d a distinct, sharp resonance at about 165cps. That machine has long since burned up, but I noted the same sort or resonance on a Florenza which I have in the work shop. I’ll have to try a reproducer with a soft rubber isolator on the Florenza. A hardened unit causes resonances at odd points throughout the machines compass

[larryh]

I would add that the Viva Tonal Columbias have a reproducer that personally I like. You can play records with various volume of steel needle and generally not bast your self out of the house.. My Brunswick portable is almost impossible to listen to with any thing but a soft tone needle. The columbia 800 I have isn't as loud nor probably as strong a projection of the sound, but very satisfying for the average records I listen too. I found that getting some of those small dots in colors you see in packs at various stores works well to put one on the inside of the label once you get the proper needle for the record figured out. That way when you decide to replay it you can then know wether you want the soft, medium or loud needle. The Viva tonal is even heavier than the Credenza which I had for many years. The sound on the Columbia is somewhat more mellow but that is something I like. Good luck

[JerryVan]

Hello again all! Thank you all for your help, it has been greatly appreciated!

I have been leaning more toward the 8-4. I have been informed by the seller that the reproducer needs the rear gasket, and have received pictures of the reproducer which actually looks like it is in good condition.

VV 8-4 2.JPG

VV 8-4 3.JPG

Though looking over the pictures, I was curious as to why the motorboard seems to be a different color compared to the rest of the finish under the lid?

VV 8-4 5.JPG

Is this normal, or is it possible that another phonograph's motorboard and motor was installed at some point?

Also, what are the dimensions of the 8-4? Is it more narrow and taller than the average console configuration; such as a 4-4?

Thanks again.
Gerald.

That reproducer, while looking nice on its face, also looks as if it will be absolute bear to disassemble in order to rebuild it. The back has been gooed up with paint and there appears to be a split in it. All of that making it really hard to unscrew the retaining ring.