Is jhonson paste wax any good for cabinets?

[fran604g]

And besides, have you priced Kiwi shoe polish lately? Around here you'll pay upwards of $5 for a little ol' tin of Kiwi that used to cost 59¢! What do they put in this stuff that makes it so costly?

The cost of Kiwis have gone up. Badumdumtish!

[Retrograde]

I've used Johnson's paste wax and Briwax with pretty good results. However I'm going to give Renaissance Wax a try. Based on what I've read on the interwebs this is very good stuff. Even has its own Wikipedia page. I have used black Kiwi shoe polish on a machine... a black HMV 101. I can't wrap my head around ever using Kiwi on a wood machine. Yikes!

[Uncle Vanya]

Actually, Kiwi, Johnson’s, and other quality waxes are of similar composition to finishing waxes which have been used for a couple hundred years. Mixtures of beeswax, Carnuba,and Montan, with the principal diference being the solvent, which in modern waxes is generally naphtha, but in Eighteenth Century formulations was invariably turpentine. The waxes which I generally use I mix using an antique formula, because it pleases me, but in reality there is no great advantage of my 1790s formula over any modern quality paste wax.

So-called “Micro-Crystalline” waxes on the other hand, are entirely synthetic, being a mixture of by-products from petroleum refining, largely de-oiled hydrocarbons, often with the large admixture of polyurethanes. Micro-crystalline coatings have distinct advantages over natural waxes in the preservation of metals from the effects of the atmosphere, for under certain conditions natural waxes can, over time, decompose, and in the act of decomposition form mild acids, which of course are not at all helpful in the preservation of delicate metallic surfaces. The must common spirit varnishes (Lac, Copal, Pyroxlyn) which were used a century or so ago in the production of furniture at industrial scale are not as subject to damage by the very mild acids which may be produced by the decomposition of natural waxes as are metal surfaces, and the conditions of heat and moisture which tend to produce the decomposition of natural waxes are themselves immensely destructive to finished wood surfaces, and so should be avoided at all costs.

Micro-crystalline waxes also tend to be very difficult to remove from wood finishes, being considerably more tenacious than natural waxes, and requiring the use of more violently aromatic solvents to effect their removal.

The use of microcrystalline waxes is generally accepted for the preservation of metallic surfaces, but even in this it is recvomended that they be used sparingly if at all on pre-industrial metal surfaces. There is considerable current controversy regarding the use of microcrystalline coatings on wood surfaces. Each must make his own choice. I personally prefer to use materials with centuries of use behind them. Just last week I was giving the annual polishing and waxing to a monumental Regency cabinet which we have owned for decades. It’s an impressive thing, eight feet long, veneered in ebony with extensive brass inlay. I used the old formula of Carnuba, Copal, bees wax, lamp black and turpentine. Of course our beloved talking machine items are mass produced industrial products, not the individual works of the great ébenéstes.

Remember that some of us collect REAL (pre-industrial) antiques, in addition to our interest in the relatively modern talking machine stuff, just st as some of us have greater or lesser backgrounds in coating and lubricant chemistry (two disciplines which have a great deal in common).

[Uncle Vanya]

No offense, but if anyone was caught applying shoe polish to any artifact in any museum around the world, they’d be fired immediately. Kiwi, along with Johnson’s is full of unstable, volatile, and harmful solvents. Renaissance wax, however, is used by most large museums for preservation of fine antiquities. I’ll stick with that.

I totally agree with this, and also want to mention the fact that it can leave behind some unintended color effects.

Many years ago, at the recommendation of a friend, I tried tan colored Kiwi (Spit-N-Shine) on an oak cabinet--fortunately not a phonograph. I coated the entire cabinet, which had a shellac finish, with a liberal coat, let it dry, and buffed it out. What I was left with was a red-orange day-glow colored finish. I tried cleaning it off, rubbing it with lemon oil, and Murphy's oil soap, but it stayed red-orange. The entire finish had to be removed and re-done.

I've since heard, from others, that Kiwi brown wax can leave behind a bright red hue, which would be just as bad.

Best to stick with waxes designed for wood surfaces.

OrthoFan

So, in short, give Kiwi the boot!

Sorry, couldn't resist. Henceforth, I'll bite my tongue and avoid lacing my comments with weak humor. Er...

Turning away from foolishness, I reclaimed the finish of my Edisonic with a product called "Black Wax" by a company called Pacific Engineering, which, quite sensibly, was in--Connecticut. Not an easy project, involving weeks of on-again, off-again evenings applying the stuff with 0000 steel wool, but the results turned out beautifully, with all the heavy alligatoring gone and a nice wax shine that has held up for about a decade now. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell, Pacific Engineering has sunk below the surface without a trace. Black Wax was a paste wax mixed with rottenstone. Perhaps another comparable product is out there?

By the way, according to the manufacturer 'way back when, alligatoring is not the original finish going bad; it's the accumulated residue of decades of cooking fumes, tobacco smoke, furniture wax, air pollution, etc., etc. adhering itself on top of the original finish, which remains perfectly good underneath. My experience with the product bears that analysis out.

Black Wax contains solvents which slightly soften shellac finishes like that on a Beethoven. The finish is somewhat softened, and the steel wool, lubricated by the wax, smooths the imperfections in the finish, removing the asperities.

[marcapra]

Asperity (materials science) They are rough, with sharp, rough or rugged projections, termed "asperities". Surface asperities exist across multiple scales, often in a self affine or fractal geometry. The fractal dimension of these structures has been correlated with the contact mechanics exhibited at an interface in terms of friction and contact stiffness .

I just said all that from memory, but I don't understand it! Marc.

[JerryVan]

Asperity (materials science) They are rough, with sharp, rough or rugged projections, termed "asperities". Surface asperities exist across multiple scales, often in a self affine or fractal geometry. The fractal dimension of these structures has been correlated with the contact mechanics exhibited at an interface in terms of friction and contact stiffness .

I just said all that from memory, but I don't understand it! Marc.

[davidjensen]

From what I could find, Renaissance wax is used for metal components not wood. It also appears to chemically similar to vaseline.

[gramophone-georg]

Well, I excitedly awaited my order of Renaissance. it came today, and I decided to give it a test on my 10-50, following instructions exactly. The panel with Renaissance on it is now the worst looking panel on the machine. This stuff just streaks and smudges and it does NOT seem to harden at all the way they say it does. It also does NOT prevent finger marks- in fact, it makes them worse.

And, my God, it REEKS.

Any idea how to remove this stuff?

[Uncle Vanya]

VM&P Naptha should do the trick. If not, Xylene. Work quickly if you are forced to use Xylene, for it can slightly soften Pyroxlyn. Try to avoid it if at all possible.

Then polish and protect with a proper finishing wax, one which contains a high proportion of Carnuba, which will harden. Minwax “Special Dark” pigmented wax or Kiwi would be the easiest to obtain. Don’t go smearing Pyroxlyn with grease again!

[gramophone-georg]

VM&P Naptha should do the trick. If not, Xylene. Work quickly if you are forced to use Xylene, for it can slightly soften Pyroxlyn. Try to avoid it if at all possible.

Then polish and protect with a proper finishing wax, one which contains a high proportion of Carnuba, which will harden. Minwax “Special Dark” pigmented wax or Kiwi would be the easiest to obtain. Don’t go smearing Pyroxlyn with grease again!

Thanks for the tip... but humor a silly Liberal Arts guy and tell me what exactly "Pyroxlyn" is, and what grease I smeared over it.