HMV 160

[AZ*]

I have one of these in oak. The tonearm is different, a later type I think, more sinuous. The design around the Nipper Logo is absent also. And it has an HMV#4 soundbox. Otherwise it looks the same.

Daithi, based on your description, you may have an HMV 161. The HMV 161 used the same cabinet as the HMV 160, but was equipped with thinner swan-neck tonearm, #4 soundbox and "saxophone" horn. When you open the doors of the record storage area, check to see if there is a blanked off area in the center like that of the model 162 pictured below. The saxophone horn machines, with their much longer horns and #4 soundbox, outperform the conventional pre-1925 gramophones such as the HMV 160.

[Daithi]

Yes AZ, it has the blanked off area as per your comment. It has the lid like the 160 and the horn plunges down to the bottom of the cabinet and back up to the top to emerge just below the motor board. Thanks very much for your info.

[OrthoFan]

Yes AZ, it has the blanked off area as per your comment. It has the lid like the 160 and the horn plunges down to the bottom of the cabinet and back up to the top to emerge just below the motor board. Thanks very much for your info.

You may find this post string of interest -- viewtopic.php?f=11&t=30494

It includes a downloadable PDF copy of the 1925 Gramophone Co. Ltd. catalog featuring the "Improved Gramophone" line, which includes the 161:

After electrical recording was introduced in early 1925, the Gramophone Company (unlike its sister company, The Victor Talking Machine Company in the United States which opted for entirely new "Orthophonic" models) fitted some of its existing stock of cabinets with the "swan neck" tonearms, #4 sound boxes, and elongated horns -- all designed to play the new recordings with greater fidelity than the older models.

OrthoFan

[Daithi]

Thank you, I am learning so much. Does anyone know what year or years was the 161 produced and in what kind of numbers? also if there is anyone out there with a winder escution plate for one I'd be much obliged since it the only part that is missing from this machine. When I got it, it was not working and was in such poor condition that I had to replace many parts over the years. Its runnning well now though.

[epigramophone]

According to "His Master's Gramophone" the Model 161 was catalogued from October 1925 to May 1927. It sold 3,172 in Oak at £25 and 1,846 in Mahogany at £30.

It has been said that the HMV "Saxophone horn" machines, for which there are no Victrola equivalents, were introduced because HMV were reluctant to pay Victor for the rights to the Orthophonic design. Nevertheless, HMV soon fell into line and introduced their own version of the Orthophonic horn, which they named the "Re-Entrant".

[Daithi]

I often wonder what was the relationship between HMV and Victor since they seem to be making very similar machines. Thanks!

[OrthoFan]

I often wonder what was the relationship between HMV and Victor since they seem to be making very similar machines. Thanks!

They were essentially "sister companies," sharing the basic patented technologies, offering similar lines of products, etc., though run as separate entities, under different managements:

Here's some (basic) background information:

Both were established by Emile Berliner -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emile_Berliner
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Ta ... ne_Company
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramophone_Company

HTH,
OrthoFan