The Gramophone Company, hornless identification

[nostalgia]

Inigo, your inputs give me confidence in trying to open the soundboxes soon, and also learn to adjust them! A few months back I had no idea they were adjustable, to me it just appeared like a glass/mica/metal diaphragm that transported the sound waves from the needle to the horn, without any possibilities of adjustments. I now realize there is far more to it.
I did not buy the hornless model that started this thread, bids arised to 100 euro yesterday, and since I mainly was after the soundbox( that also was rusty), I decided to drop out. If the next 6 months expose only 25-50% of the sometimes extraordinary bargains I have been lucky to meet in my search for gramophones and soundboxes during the last 6 months, I will be more than happy, since I also anyway will need to restrict my purchases more in 2020. In addition I will also be more than busy in keeping up with servicing and caring for my gramophones.

[Inigo]

You can find other tabletops for cheap, but if they have the exhibition soundbox, and the seller is knowledgeable, the price will be raised for the exhibition alone...

[CarlosV]

I would not expect miracles out of an exhibition soundbox. It is a quite limited design that filters out all spectrum below mid-range. This is the case with almost all mica diaphragms,the number 4 being a reasonable exception. The exhibition is not capable to satisfactorily play electrically recorded discs.

[Inigo]

Yes, that's true, if only for the size reduction. Size in acoustic sound systems is related to the maximum wavelength transmitted.
Anyway, good crystalline mica diaphragms are not so bad, and they can work very well. I'm with you that the size and proportions of the no 4 soundbox are exceptionally well matched and the sound of a properly restored no4 can be marvellous, though it never matches the openness and clarity of the ones with aluminium diaphragms.
About electrically recorded records, it is possible to use a well tuned Exhibition to play them acceptably, though constricted in response spectrum. Of course, they must be soft recordings, for the strident or too dynamic ones cannot pass without distortion. I've done some experiments with my only Exhibition, enhancing the back air chamber and reducing the pressure on the diaphragm gaskets, and using felt washers between the balance springs, and non-strident electrical records could be played acceptably, concessions done to a reduced response in bass and treble, but the overall sound was pleasant. For that I used the semi-permanent Laubscher Pickup needles, similar in shape to the Recoton type, which have a thick shaft (like a loud tone steel needle) until mid length, the rest down to the point being like an extra-soft needle. I've uploaded some videos of it playing electrics on my YouTube channel, using the Laubscher needles and bamboo needles :
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gEvTnv9_qfI
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wzqAdohSilQ
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4tVigBi43P4

[Inigo]

Re-reading this, I remember the six months I've passed making modifications and tests with my only exhibition soundbox... I'm in need of one or two more of these soundboxes, or acceptable copies of them, for I'd like to have interchangeable soundboxes of the same type, each one tuned in a different way. That's the only way to be able to play ANY record with an exhibition!!
If I had a turning machine I'd try to make my own copies of the exhibition. I'm romantically convinced that a modified exhibition could still give better results...
Wasn't it true that the first models of EMG soundboxes were but a tuneable version of an exhibition???
Anyway, coming back to the main thread, with the short conical expansion law horn of a HMV/Victor tabletop of this era, we cannot expect but a constricted frequency response spectrum. As it is similar to the recording spectrum of acoustic pre-1924 records, those of the 1910s, these records sound in these machines fairly well, always provided they are not strident. Some engineers really mastered the acoustic recording technology... Others didn't!

[Marco Gilardetti]

Personally I'm not so severe with the Exhibition soundbox. It can deliver an extremely emotional sound, when paired with a well sounding gramophone designed for it. Also in terms of sound pressure, it can do wonders under certain circumstances.

I would say that the main effect of conical (or otherwise not mathematically engineered) horns is not to act as a high-pass filter (that being the result of a too short, too small or poorly engineered horn), but rather to apply a comb filter effect to the entire sound spectrum. However, possibly because a similar comb effect was unintentionally applied also during the recording sessions, and as in absence of a well established theory of horn-loading the horns were mostly designed by fine ear-tuning with a lot of trial and error, I have the impression that the recording and playback combing effects sort of cancel out with each other, resulting in an amazingly enjoyable output sound in many cases.

In my opinion, mainly for this reason, well-recorded acoustic records play amazingly well with the "classic" Exhibition / external horn combo, with astonishing and even moving results at times.

Conversely, the same records usually play dull and unimpressive on orthophonic machines, and are literally killed by electromagnetic pick-ups and electronic amplification, with which they sound plain awful.

[nostalgia]

Honestly, the only reason I wanted this particular Exhibition, with "The Gramophone Company" name engraved on it, (version 1908-18), was because I know this would be the correct Exhibition soundbox for my HMV Intermediate Monarch, who is missing its soundbox ( and winding key).
But hey,,, you guys reveal a lot of your knowledge about soundboxes while reflecting on this gramophone and the Exhibition soundboxes in general, and I ( and I am sure many more too who read this) could not be happier:) Sharing knowledge makes the legacy live on:)
Thanks a lot for sharing, again.

[tomb]

that is very similar to a Victrola IV or VI hornless model. The companies must have copied each other. Tom

[Inigo]

I'd love to have an external horn machine.... This is my never achieved desire... They're so expensive... I'm sure what I could do with a big external horn fed by an exhibition soundbox, playing well recorded acoustic records...
I know a guy at a record shop who has one of those small cage hmv models with the big tin morning glory horn. I've offered him to restore it for free, but he doesn't want. Her wants it as decorative element only. That machine only needs one or two afternoons of love and care to become a marvel, but he's not interested ...
I would enjoy a lot only restoring it...

[nostalgia]

Inigo, when you talk about an external horn machines that you would like to own, do you here mean HMV only, or also possibly an off brand machine?
Are off brand external horn gramophones also expensive in your area?