The Gramophone Company, hornless identification

[Marco Gilardetti]

I'd love to have an external horn machine.... This is my never achieved desire... They're so expensive...

You don't know how much I second those sentiments. I ran after an external horn machine for twentyfive years (by the way, only coincidentally escaping crap-o-phones when things such as internet didn't exist and nobody knew anything about crap-o-phones - Lord oh Lord which bullets I have dodged!).

Through all those years, they were always too rich for my blood, and as soon as I saved a bit more money, the prices had increased and I could no longer afford them once again. And so on and so on and so on. Until some years ago I made my mind up that, as they had been constantly in my thoughts for a whole lifetime, I definitely had to buy one, full stop.

I had of course to make sacrifices, renounce to many other things, but it was absolutely worth it and I will never regret doing so. I only warmly suggest you to carefully choose a nice, well-preserved machine, known to sound exceptionally well, sold by a reputable seller, and go for it. I would definitely avoid off-brand or primitive machines of uncertain sonic qualities.

@ nostalgia: external horn gramophones in southern Europe are not only extremely expensive, but they are also so rare that they can be basically considered nonexistent.

[epigramophone]

Do not dismiss all "off brand" external horn machines. There are good and bad examples. Pictured below is the first such machine I ever bought, and which I still own.
It has defied positive identification, but has the faint impression of the Beka flamingo trade mark and a serial number on the tonearm. As Beka supplied components to the gramophone trade, this is not proof that the entire machine is by Beka.

It has a nickel plated double spring motor, 12 inch turntable, goose-neck tonearm and 22 inch peacock feather pattern horn. It plays very well and is my machine of choice for talks and demonstrations, as it conforms to non-collectors perceptions of what a gramophone should look like. Of all my machines it is my son's favourite, so it's future is assured.

[Inigo]

Marco and nostalgia: yes, yes and yes. Of course the best ones are the great brands, that invested lots of money in acquiring patents and improvements. Why then the fact is that any hmv/Victor or Columbia huge external horn gramophone sounds so well and looks so nice? It's not the magic of the brand, it's their achievements in unsurpassed quality and performance!
And epi... You also are certain in what we call off-brands are a whole world to discover. Although we tend to extend that qualification to German machines, and this in my opinion must be taken with care and examined deeply.
Germany has always been an industrial giant, and an enormous market. German machines we most know are the brands that exported completed machines like Beka, Parlophon and Odeon, but I've got the impression that their internal market was still greater, and there are many models of their own that still we don't know, and the were also many other makers of complete machines, and a myriad of enterprises that sold parts for others to assemble. So what we call an off-brand may be anything that simply wasn't made by the the grands, from a small or machine sold locally to a big powerful marvel which we didn't know.
Just think of that thread of our Brazilian colleague about an enormous Parlophon machine with that beauty of cylindrical monster motor completely nickeled... I don't remember now who was him not the subject of the thread, but a search can be done to find that marvel.
Certainly what we call an off brand could be a quality and powerful gramophone!

[Inigo]

Anyway, as Marco pointed before, in the South o of Europe, an external horn gramophone (authentic) means 1000+ Euros for start. And most of which I see now in Spain are frankenphoned in one or other way. Well, in certain aspects this has changed lately... We're being flooded with French Pathé machines, ans sous of other French gramophones as Thorens, Salabert, etc, mostly consolettes, tabletops and portables. I suspect our gypsies have discovered a new mine in acquiring gramophones in France and bringing them here, of the kind that are readily transportable. And they must be buying them for nothing at French fairs and vide-greniers, for they resell them in Madrid for cheap prices. Some Pathé Horn machines appear, but very scarcely.
I'm talking about what can be seen in flea markets and antique shops. The web id another world.
In general good horn machines are expensive, more as its rarity, originality and good preservation increase. But some dealers don't feel ashamed of trying to pass a brilliantly (shiny) restored machine for an original. You always see something strange.... The market on Spain is pretty spoiled!

[Oedipus]

Roger, you must have had your left eye closed when you looked this up in HMG! It's a Model 57, illustrated twice on page 166. But both those illustrations have a quadrant speed control, so this with its simple screw must be an early one -- what motor does it have?

[nostalgia]

Hi "Oedipus", thanks for your valuable identification:)
The gramophone was not purchased by myself, and I did not receive more photos than the photos already uploaded here, so I have no chance to check the motor. The sales price was 80 euro...
And Inogo/ Marco, I had no idea that external horn gramophones are this expensive in southern Europe...