HMV horn machine- kind of

[schweg]

OK-wrong horn (but I think the correct one is there at the sale) wrong reproducer, any other problems? I wondered about the brake? HMV machines I have use a bullet or regular friction brake. I've seen one like this before so I know some parts of it are genuine. I'll find out the price tomorrow. Let me know what you think HMV enthusiasts.

Thanks! Steve

[gramophoneshane]

I think the back bracket & tonearm are HMV...but that's it.
It's a frankenphone, probably only useful for spare parts.

[schweg]

I found these after a little digging. Still can't see the brake though- I think the one I showed at first is wrong. Guess I'll see the asking price before deciding if it's worth the trip.

juniormonarch.jpg (40.67 KiB) Viewed 1995 times

from Christie's

d3896708x.jpg (31.44 KiB) Viewed 1995 times

[gramophoneshane]

Well, the case could be HMV then, but I'm not sure why it would have had those little square block feet added under the moulding. HMV never did that AFAIK. The brake is a Thorens brake from what I can see..

[Steve]

The case appears to be genuine BUT although the back-bracket and tone-arm ARE HMV products as indicated by Shane, they are the wrong type for the Junior Monarch (which the case is). Note, the cylindrical slot for the drop-in type elbow? The Junior Monarch should have the more commonly found bracket/elbow arrangement with the Y-shape clamp to secure the elbow down. That bracket is probably from the Intermediate Monarch.

I would second what Shane says about the odd bracket feet AND the speed control and brake. They are definitely not HMV parts. Remember that HMV used imported Victor parts at this stage so anything alien to Victor owners will also apply to HMV owners. I have this very machine in my collection so I'm certain about this. Also, I suspect the motor-board has been replaced or had some repair to it. Note how bulky and rough it looks compared to the other examples pictured. This model has very sharp, crisp lines and elegantly smooth curves to the edge mouldings of the motor-board.

It could possibly be an odd European export which had a unique case. The Gramophone Co. did do some very odd things with export models so who knows?

So it has the wrong non-HMV horn. The wrong tone-arm / back-bracket (albeit HMV parts), the wrong non-HMV soundbox, the wrong non-HMV speed control and brake and possibly some case 'issues'.

What are they asking? In my honest opinion it's a bit of a dog and is not worth investigating further. You'll very unlikely ever source the correct parts so it'll remain an incomplete machine for a long time.

The trademark transfer looks quite poor too. Shame..........

[Sidewinder]

I support Steve's great analysis. Can you ascertain if the motor is HMV?

The brass horn & elbow are crapophone, but if the motor is OK, and the price is low, you get some ok bits for restoration / spares. The later bracket could be right for this machine - I've seen this constellation before. (except that the brake is probably a replacement)

---> but I think the correct one is there at the sale

with the right elbow? Do you have a pic of this?

[schweg]

I'm supposed to receive an email later today with the asking price. It's at an estate sale about an hour away. Unless they are asking way too much, I'll probably go and have a look. The horn was pictured sitting on the floor but looks authentic. I don't think there's an elbow. The sale starts tomorrow so we'll see what happens. However, all the good comments I've gotten here have cooled my enthusiasm quite a bit. Thanks for your help.. Steve

horn.jpg (27.16 KiB) Viewed 1934 times

[Steve]

I've seen this constellation before

Sidewinder, I wonder if the one you have seen was in a TEAK cabinet and destined for the Indian sub-continent?

As far as I can remember this model, the Junior Monarch, got re-named (re-numbered) to a "No. 4" after 1910 but after 1914 was discontinued completely? The other models, for instance the Intermediate Monarch and Senior Monarch were re-numbered to No. 2 and No. 7 respectively. These latter two designs were indeed available into the 1920's and would be re-numbered yet again and with both available with the drop-in elbow arrangement. I have not seen the Junior Monarch / No. 4 with this arrangement (yet).

[Steve]

Thanks for your help.. Steve

You're very welcome, schweg!

Let us know how you get on. I would like to see better (more revealing) photos!

[Zeppy]

Take a look at the motor. My guess is that other noted the motor board appears wrong, and it has the wrong brake, and it appears to have the wrong speed adjustment knob, that someone just dropped a whole new motorboard w/motor in it.