Gramophone Reproduction (Indian)

[Gracelander]

Hi folks, wanted to know if I could ask A question about one of those Indian reproduction machines. My sister knew of my love for stereos and thought I would want one. I had mentioned wanting a real one but it’s all she could afford. So I accepted it graciously knowing I’ll buy a real one in time. I’ve assembled the parts but the spindle where you put the record through the hole doesn’t come up high enough and the record just slides across the turntable. I wrote to the eBay seller and they said to just remove the turntable and reseat it but I have no clue how to remove it. This is just a big fiasco and now they are sending a new “motor”. Instead of waiting another month do you know if a way to remove the turntable to raise the spindle? I’m beyond pissed right now and if it wasn’t a gift I would have just thrown this away. It’s supposed to be a “HMV” type with horn. I’ve always known and heard the term crapophone but until I received one I didn’t know exactly how bad it would be. Thanks

[JerryVan]

Can you post a photo of the situation you're dealing with?

Also, where are you located?

[Gracelander]

Can you post a photo of the situation you're dealing with?

Also, where are you located?

Hi thank you for your reply. I’m very new to this board so hopefully it’ll work. I will try to send two shots, one of the entire box and then I’m pointing at the piece that doesn’t make it through any record hole. I stupidly broke a Glen Miller by thinking it maybe needed a nudge. I was wrong.

Bob

[Herman]

Looks like the spindle is too large a dia. You would need to remove the spindle and have it turned in a lathe. Not worth the effort for a craphophone. If you only want to show it and maybe play one record, drill the hole in the record to fit the spindle. Note also that the needle appears to be at 90 degrees to the record which will ruin any record played as setup.

Personally I would bite the bullet and set the thing on fire so it does not make its way into another unsuspecting person.

By the way, I would not ruin that turntable cover you have that craphophone sitting on top of.

[Gracelander]

I should have put this shirt up also so you can see what I mean about the records not sitting properly.
Btw I’m in Virginia just outside of DC.
Thanks again

[startgroove]

Sometimes there is a pin, or some other kind of indexing device that has to fit into a slot on the bottom of the turntable. If so, lift the turntable up a little, start the motor and gently release the turntable downwards. If it seats lower, you're in.

[VanEpsFan1914]

What he said is a good idea.


As a Glenn Miller fan--don't drill that record just to play it on a cheap replica--when (not if) you upgrade to an antique machine, you won't want to have the good records slopping around on the turntable.

Take the platter off, and then take a piece of 100-grit sandpaper and sand the spindle down to where it will fit records. Use your record with the least damaged spindle hole in it to measure until it just fits.

Now--for making your gramophone play. Your sister is very kind, and is probably a lovely person, but the Indian replica machines are not particularly good for actually listening to classic 78s. Set your needle angle at 60 degrees trailing along the surface of the record. Seal all joints in the tonearm with axle grease or Vaseline. Replace the needle after each record, and, since the replica soundboxes are not particularly compliant (flexibility in the needle bar, just like in a modern stereo) you will want to break in the tip of each new needle in the runout groove of the record you are about to play.

Adjust the motor to 78rpm. The speed dial may not be accurate...test it by putting a piece of paper under the platter and take a watch with a second hand and count off 20 revolutions in 15 seconds. This is a speed of 80 rpm suitable for Columbia records of the pre-1925 era. Back it down a hint. Your 78s should sound decent. Early Victor recordings (batwing or patents labels, pre 1925) can vary in speed. Some run around 75, others closer to 80.

Now make sure the horn doesn't fall off because it doesn't have a rivet securing it to the soldered-tin elbow.

Put on a favorite record, write your sister and thank her, and get to the Yankee Trader and ask if any collectors have a phonograph to get rid of! A horn machine can be had with a bit of patience or a Wanted ad, but I'd personally suggest a console or upright Victrola--they are big and durable, the lid keeps the dust off, and they're awesome. I have had one since 2016 (a Victrola XIV, built from 1912 to 1923ish--mine is a 1914 model) and it's great.

Other people will love the Victrola Orthophonics, introduced to play electrically recorded discs after 1925--like Glenn Miller and other swing and hot jazz classics. Try the elegant Granada 4-40, a petite 4-3 Consolette, or the mighty Credenza. Should you want the warm rich sound of vacuum tubes, look round for a Victor Radio Electrola, like the RE-45. 1920s radios are really neat and some can have amazing sound on AM.

Good luck, and hope you can either make your little phonograph work, or end up trying one of the classic machines of yesteryear. Many of us keep our antiques on active service and use them everyday. I know I do--that's how I listen to music.

[JerryVan]

When you say, "doesn't make it through the record hole", do you mean that the shaft is too large in diameter to fit through the hole in the record, or that that the shaft is too short to reach through the record?

[Gracelander]

the shaft doesn’t seem to be out far enough to get the record on. Compared to a 33rpm lp where you just line the record and hole and they fit inside each other. I’m trying not to make weird innuendos here, but the male is to short to get into the hole. Sorry it’s hard to describe this with a serious face. I guess I expected the record to seat itself around the dial but like my picture shows it just sits on top and I can’t get the head in.

[JerryVan]

Sometimes there is a pin, or some other kind of indexing device that has to fit into a slot on the bottom of the turntable. If so, lift the turntable up a little, start the motor and gently release the turntable downwards. If it seats lower, you're in.

As mentioned by "Startgroove", there should be a drive pin in the spindle shaft, located beneath the turntable. Since the turntable is sitting so high off the cabinet, maybe you can look under it and see if, in fact, there is a pin, going horizontally into the spindle shaft. This pin should fit into a notch, or groove, on the bottom side of the turntable. The function of the pin is to engage and drive the turntable so that it doesn't slip on the spindle shaft, but instead rotates as it should. Very often, during assembly, the pin is not aligned & engaged with the slot/notch/groove in the turntable. The effect is to make the turntable sit too high on the shaft, which may explain why the shaft is not protruding enough to make it though your record.

If you need to remove the turntable in order to make these inspections, simply grab the turntable at its edges and pull up, while with one thumb, press down on the spindle shaft. Unless it's really pressed on tight, the table should lift off.