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 Post subject: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:23 pm 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:27 am
Posts: 43
Location: The south of England
Hi,
I'm new here - but would like some advice on this HMV 162 which I have purchased. I already have and use one but this somewhat earlier example came my way rather cheaply and its in more original condition than the other one.

I believe the finish is in oak (dark chocolate brown colour) and it has an early style of HMV logo - which surprised me as I thought the later style without the swirls came in with the 'New Gramophone' a year or so before.

The finish is very good and it doesn't look like it has been worked on - although the motor is over greased and the sound box appears to be a potmetal #4

I've made a couple of videos on it (youtube is a bot of a hobby for me) - but I'd like advice on what to do with the lid which has a bit of a bald spot!

Will it respond well to coloured wax (if so could somebody recomedn some please) - or is there some other way I can improve it. The rest of the machine could do with a clean and polish but really seems in good condition.

Any help or information would be much appreciated. I've read back through the threads here and learnt a lot! However it would appear the 162 is not much loved


https://youtu.be/bmpgVosavbM
https://youtu.be/z51G1pYuyVE


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:31 am 
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Victor III
Keep winding up
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:58 am
Posts: 705
Location: My gramophone repair room
Congratulations on your new find! You will very likely get some good answers from the HMV experts in here, but I also wanted to give some inputs, even if I am not too experienced with my restoration on the HMV consoles/tabletops. As you say yourself, the non re-entrant console models are not too popular these days, they are big and take up space, but imho they are still important to take care of, since they are both an important part of the HMV history, as well as being nice furnitures/gramophones that become more scarce every day. I have only been active on the forum since last summer, but have owned a HMV 145 since around 1990, and actually paid £ 1000 for it back then, nowadays it will hardly return £ 100, but that is now, and what the situation will be like in another 30 years, who knows. But monetary value is one thing, historical and cultural value, and the joy and interest that go along with caring for these gramophones can hardly be overrated.
I leave to the experts to determine if your machine is mahogany or oak, this model were made both in oak and mahogany. Concerning the woodwork/lid, I am currently restoring two oak HMV machines myself, and without even commenting on the decision of stripping and not stripping ( I am sure you will get advice on that soon from the experts), I can say that I am in a similar position with my two HMV wooden cabinets. One lid top need to be stripped, according to advice received here on the forum, while the other machine, a model 109 tabletop, I have tried to use Liberon dark oak wood dye on the bad/bold spots, after first cleaning the whole cabinet with non abrasive Swarfega Classic hand cleaner. I also had to use some wood filler on parts of my 109 tabletop cabinet, but I admittedly still have some challenges to even out the Liberon wood dye, to make the cabinet look good. I guess there is always the challenge of getting an even look, when one is not stripping a cabinet. I hope you will get better advice on what do do with your chosen gramophone, than I currently am able to provide on this matter... If you live in the UK, Liberon products are readily available, myself I live outside the UK, but have still been able to get these products in continental Europe.
In addition to these small comments, I would advice to you to visit the (more than) excellent website of the late Graham Barber, where he in details explains how he is working on his HMV gramophones, and you will also find how he works on wooden cabinets. In addition, his youtube videos is how I taught myself to do a full service on the HMV motors, including the 32 motor with a double spring, that is inside your machine. If you never have been servicing a gramophone, I would advice however to start with a HMV 101 portable, with a single spring motor, before working on the 32 motor, to avoid a too steep learning curve, and any bad experiences with the springs. I include both the link to Graham Barbers restoration website, as well to his youtube videos where he is servicing his gramophones.
Good luck !
http://www.restore-a-gram.co.uk/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nuUeHv-v6k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOP_xeP8dyA

PS. If you decide to service the springs on a HMV 101/102 portable/HMV 162, be careful not to lose the washers inside the winding shaft, they are VERY easy to lose. Also, pay special attention to not losing the small ball bearings. Been there, done that...


Last edited by nostalgia on Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 5:33 am 
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Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3430
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
A possible reason for the lack of interest in the HMV162 and it's bigger brother the 192 is that they were stop gap models with a relatively short production life.

It has been said that HMV used the "saxophone" horn out of reluctance to pay their Victor associates for the rights to the "Orthophonic" design. From HMV's advertising, one might be forgiven for thinking that they invented the saxophone horn. They did not. The Apollo "Deep Tone Resonator" of similar shape anticipated it by several years.

HMV soon fell into line and introduced the "Re-Entrant" horn in late 1927, a metal version of the wooden Orthophonic.

The lid transfer on your 162 is certainly an anomaly, and as you surmise, the pot metal No.4 soundbox is probably a later replacement for a brass one.

As for the worn patch on the lid, I have used Topp's Scratch Cover Polish with some success, followed by an application of Antique Brown Briwax.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 9:59 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
The lid appears to be refinished in the picture so I'd be tempted to strip it down and start again.

I actually like the 511 from this period and whilst the most elegant to look at the accidentally brilliant horn works better than even the largest saxophone types.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:06 am 
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Victor IV
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 5:40 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: Holy Loch in Argyll and Bute
I have no idea why the internal face of the doors are oak but the motor board and inside of lid appear to be deep burgundy colour like mahogany. It doesn't look quite right to me.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:28 am 
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Victor III
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Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 9:51 pm
Posts: 913
Location: USA
Steve wrote:
I actually like the 511 from this period and whilst the most elegant to look at the accidentally brilliant horn works better than even the largest saxophone types.

Interesting observation. I wonder if that's why my 511 gets more use than my 3 sax machines.
Best regards ... AZ*


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:21 pm 
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Victor O
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:52 pm
Posts: 58
Location: Chicago
Steve wrote:
I actually like the 511 from this period and whilst the most elegant to look at the accidentally brilliant horn works better than even the largest saxophone types.


The HMV 511 is my dream machine. I would love to find one some day.


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:27 am 
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Victor VI
An analogue relic trapped in a digital world.
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:21 pm
Posts: 3430
Location: The Somerset Levels, UK.
So would I, but meanwhile my Micro-Perophone Chromogram bears more than a passing resemblance :


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:28 am 
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Victor Jr
User avatar
Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:27 am
Posts: 43
Location: The south of England
nostalgia wrote:
I have tried to use Liberon dark oak wood dye on the bad/bold spots, after first cleaning the whole cabinet with non abrasive Swarfega Classic hand cleaner. I also had to use some wood filler on parts of my 109 tabletop cabinet, but I admittedly still have some challenges to even out the Liberon wood dye, to make the cabinet look good. I guess there is always the challenge of getting an even look, when one is not stripping a cabinet. I hope you will get better advice on what do do with your chosen gramophone, than I currently am able to provide on this matter... If you live in the UK, Liberon products are readily available, myself I live outside the UK, but have still been able to get these products in continental Europe.

Thanks nostalgia for all the info and encouragement. :D Swarfega sounds like a good idea to clean it with. There are a couple of very minor spots which could do with filling but they are so small the a wax furniture stick might be sufficient. I used simple retouch pens and wax stick on my Philips Radiogram which massively improved its appearance (though it was pretty bad to begin with). I'll have a look at Liberon wood dye though it sounds like it could be tricky to get right.

nostalgia wrote:
In addition to these small comments, I would advice to you to visit the (more than) excellent website of the late Graham Barber, where he in details explains how he is working on his HMV gramophones, and you will also find how he works on wooden cabinets.

Thanks also for the info on Graham Barber. I had forgotten he had covered the 163 cabinet, as I had visited his website and watched his videos before - back when my one and only gramophone was a Decca Salon 100 (now sold) - where his instructions helped me rebuild the mount on the #8 sound box. He also very kindly shot me a little video showing how the autobrake worked. I was very sorry to hear he was no longer with us.

I've been a bit short of time this week - but hopefully will get to look at this 162 more this weekend. Thanks again :D


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 Post subject: Re: HMV 162 - new purchase - advice please
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 8:41 am 
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Victor Jr
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Joined: Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:27 am
Posts: 43
Location: The south of England
epigramophone wrote:
A possible reason for the lack of interest in the HMV162 and it's bigger brother the 192 is that they were stop gap models with a relatively short production life.

It has been said that HMV used the "saxophone" horn out of reluctance to pay their Victor associates for the rights to the "Orthophonic" design. From HMV's advertising, one might be forgiven for thinking that they invented the saxophone horn. They did not. The Apollo "Deep Tone Resonator" of similar shape anticipated it by several years.

HMV soon fell into line and introduced the "Re-Entrant" horn in late 1927, a metal version of the wooden Orthophonic.

The lid transfer on your 162 is certainly an anomaly, and as you surmise, the pot metal No.4 soundbox is probably a later replacement for a brass one.

As for the worn patch on the lid, I have used Topp's Scratch Cover Polish with some success, followed by an application of Antique Brown Briwax.


I have to admit that when I bought my original 162 (not this one) I had no idea what I was buying. I won it at auction on eBay - sight unseen (though a few photos of course) - I don't think I even knew what the model number was. It did however meet my basic criteria of being a floor mounted model with vertical record storage underneath - though as the wooden panel was missing from the horn - I didn't realise until it was in my hands how much of the space was taken up with that.

I always meant to rebuild the soundbox - but found a boxed 5B in an antique shop for about £30 which is what I am using on it now.

I didn't intend to buy another 162 - but seemed like too good a deal to pass up. I've had a good look over it and can't see any signs of tampering - though there are noticeable differences from the other one. I did wonder if the lid might be from an earlier gramophone which would explain the transfer - but I can't see any model which would fit. The lid is slighty different to my other 162 anyway - but no more so than other aspects of the cabinet.

Apparently Topp's Scratch Cover Polish is no longer available - but thanks for the tip as there are replacement products which others have used successfully and it put me on the right track when googling. The Briwax sounds like a good idea too. Thanks for all the info :-)


Last edited by mrrgstuff on Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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