Brown Wax Cylinders

[FRANCISCO]

Hi everyone.
I would like to know the formulation or ingredients of brown wax. I have thought about making molds and making my own standard and concert cylinders for my Edison phonographs.
Has anyone of you done it?

[AmberolaAndy]

PM Shawn Borri (edisonphonoworks) on here. He should know!

[edisonphonoworks]

I have hours and hours of videos on my YouTube channel The North American Phonograph Company, that has information on making brown wax. It seems quite straightforward but has musts, which is very time-consuming. I have made lots of wax. Chuck Richards also has an extensive website on the subject. This year marks 20 years of making brown wax cylinders. The least in a year I have made is about 200 brown wax records, to the most of about 1,500, and I have made them every year. You can't just make the compound and pour it in the mold hot. It must be heated and cooled twice, then cooled again and then you can mold blanks, it won't work very well if you pour freshly made wax right after all reactions have taken place and it is still liquid from its initial making. Below is a glimpse of some of the work involved, actually much much more goes into it.

[travisgreyfox]

For some reason those pics made me hungry


Thanks for sharing edisonphonoworks.

[fmblizz]

wow

that right there is a reason to just buy them from someone and go to work on a chocolate martini.. Just saying

blizz

[edisonphonoworks]

https://youtu.be/7iZZe_Ezyoo Making hydrated aluminum

https://youtu.be/X2okC-45J2E The biggest annoyance and hurdle with modern versions of the chemicals available today is a defect that crops up that appear as a white snowflake in the blank. It used to happen so often I used to let it go out, as when I received blanks from at the time the only other blank maker before I made my own, they had the same problem. I, however, did not think it is acceptable to sell to anyone and now found a way of fixing the problem.

https://youtu.be/3lMyE2Lgn3Q



This video shows the basic making of the wax. It shows hydrated aluminum added to melted stearic acid, and the color changes it goes through, the finishing of the wax, and molding the blank cylinder. It is best to obtain samples from chemical companies of ceresin and stearic acid, even though they are technically the same component, different brands and kinds IE triple, double pressed, plant or animal-based, for stearic, or natural, or synthetic ceresin can make differences in the quality of the blanks, just as much as the process, so try different brands as chemical samples, and choose the one that works best for YOU. Usually, proper wax making can reach very high temperatures, so NEVER leave it unattended and have a fire extinguisher within arms reach at all times! As a guide, (depends on how you want the wax to sound, and the individual chemicals you choose) ceresin is added last, and never above 232C, I now add it in liquid form after the soap portion of the wax has been made and heated and cooled once, then when it is heated again to 232 then the ceresin is added, melted previous in a double boiler, and you can use paraffin or beeswax for temper too! I must also state that the molds are heated in an oven for an hour. Some molds require a pre-heat of 450F Mine work best at 375F and sometimes 280F, it all depends on the density of materials used to make the mold and the metals, and the proportions you use. If you use different metals in the mold, you will have to have a higher temperature, as a slight alkali wax, may cause an electrical current to flow through the wax, the different metals creating a battery with the wax, so 450 is best to combat this problem. If you search through my videos you will find percentages for formulas.

[FRANCISCO]

Thank you very much for such generous kindness. Great comments and videos.
I am an expert in intelligent systems for industrial electronics, for me it will be very difficult to make brown wax cylinders because I do not know the chemistry.
If I can't locate it, I will make a lathe and molds, buy a fryer and all the products to make the formulation. When I gather it I will try everything.
Thank you

[edisonphonoworks]

It is expensive to start a cylinder record factory, that is true, and all kinds of risks are involved. Also, it takes many tries, to learn how to mold blanks. Wax making is strange and puzzling too, especially the first time, it is always better to add small additions of hydrated aluminum than huge additions that can overrun the pot, 20-30 ml of solution at a time is a good start, and allow 3 times space above your intended wax amount in the crucible, or pot you are using, it expands quite a bit when you add hydrated alumina. The main stumbling block when people attempt to make blanks is that they forget that the mold mandrel is 2% larger in diameter than the finished record, as the wax shrinks in diameter, and length, after the wax cools to room temperature, yes you can make a mold with the same dimensions as a phonograph mandrel, IF you make the total OD about 2.35", then you can ream the inside to size, however when I designed my molds, I made the mandrel 2% larger in diameter and 7" long to make sure all bases were covered and it was a great move, with my wooden core contraction method, I just drop an Edison standard phonograph mandrel down the blank, check to make sure it does not wobble, and then mark and trim. Molds usually don't work the first time you use them, they need to heat and cool a few times. Also, the bottom edge of the mandrel can't have sharp corners, or it will crack the cylinder, I rounded the mold corners over, also a washer of some kind is needed, (just paper or cardboard will work) on the bottom of the mold so it does not leak. spiral core molds have a longer grace period of working time than smoothbore molds (smoothbore molds have seconds of time to remove the core of it will be stuck if left on too long.) while you have at least 10 minutes to work with a spiral core, as it is self-extracting when you unscrew the blank from the core. If I were to make more molds, I would put a long t handle on the top and would have made the outer tube 1" higher than the core, so one does not have to keep an eye on the wax level. Most of the modeling I do is in an oven, I use a 12" cake pan under the mold, so nothing drips on the bottom of the oven to prevent a fire hazard. I heat the mold, for an hour, pull the mold out long enough to fill it, and always overfill so the wax pours down the sides, it prevents bubbles. I then put the mold back in the oven with the heat on for 5 more minutes, then shut the oven off, then set a timer for 90 minutes. After the 90 minutes, I take the mold out of the oven and remove the bottom of the mold. I screw in the core, into the blank, until the core is even with the end of the thin end, then I unscrewed the blank from the core, the wax is still quite plastic, so it does not hurt the blank, and it ensures that the blank is going to come out right, some lower pre heats can make extraction time 70 minutes, if you have a cold room you are making them in, a warm room where you are uncomfortable makes the best blanks, and extraction time for those rooms is 90 minutes if you have the mold preheat correct for your mold.

[FRANCISCO]

First of all, I want to express my sincere thanks for your extraordinary help.
My wife and I are studying your You Tube channel, (extraordinary manufacturing process).
I have very little knowledge of chemistry, to avoid failures and accidents I only have this idea if possible:
You take pictures with the exact measurements of your molds; Interiors, Exteriors, lengths and thicknesses, so that I can see them. In this way I can have molds just like the ones you have.
A note of the formula with units of weight, volume, time and temperature. This is our most difficult part of understanding your videos by not understanding English correctly.
We would like to be able to manufacture our own cylinders, we have seen that it is not simple and only in this way would success be possible.
Can you send this privately?

Thanks once again

[Chuck]

Mr. Borri has shown just the most basic things that anyone
wanting to make brown wax cylinders needs to do in order to to make them.

There is much scientific investigation which needs to be
done by anyone wanting to learn how to make these.

Anyone wanting to have a look at the scientific method,
please check out my website
http://www.richardslaboratories.com

On that site, a good share of the science is shown.

Most of it centers around careful control of time and temperature.
As the wax is being made, the time, the temperature, and the
exact amounts of ingredients added must all be simultaneously controlled.

When the cylinders are cast into the mold, precise temperature
control is critical. Slow cooling in dead still air is required.
Also, it has been found that the technique of zone refinement
is very helpful in eliminating the annoying white impurities which
Mr. Borri mentions.

In short, if you want to make these, be prepared to spend years
of your life learning how. I've been at it since 2009.
It took me a few years before I was producing a repeatable high-quality,
low-noise product.

Best of luck to you! All any of us who make them can offer
are glimpses of what we do. It is up to you to make sense
of it all, and to find your own method. We can guide you.
But in the end, it is up to you. The process itself is the best teacher!

Everyone who makes these will attest to that!

Chuck