Wrong spring type in this Victrola motor?

[Jonsheff]

I am rebuilding a Victrola 2 spring motor from a rare 1912 VV-IX with low serial number, first year manufacturer. The motor would not wind up before i disassembled for cleaning. When i got to removing the springs from the two seperate barrels, one spring has a pear shaped hole on the end to catch the spur on the shaft but the other spring is the type bent to go into a slot on the shaft (this has spurs for both springs). To me it looks like this motor never worked because it has the wrong spring installed.
Has anyone worked on one of these motor types and are both springs supposed to have the pear shaped hole to catch the spir on the shaft?
Here are pics of the motor, both spring inside ends and the shaft. Any help would be appreciated.

[VanEpsFan1914]

Aw, that's cool! 1912 VV-IX machines are so wonderfully primitive--that motor seems very similar to the ones in the open-horn models. I fixed the local museum's IX one time--a first-year one in oak; that was the first Victrola I had ever heard (almost eight years before!) and it was nice going back and fixing the machine that introduced me to the sound of 78s. Kind of a returning of the favor...last I heard it was playing for the schoolchildren on some new needles.

Yes, you will need a new spring; that one is the wrong style and it won't be worth the effort to try straightening it out. If you wanted to see what kind it was, clear away the grease & look at the metal near where it hooks onto the barrel. If it has a picture of a Quaker gent from colonial times you have an "Honest Quaker" mainspring, popular aftermarket in the early days. If it's an original Victor spring (I bet the other would have it) there should be a little picture of Nipper & the gramophone, and "His Master's Voice" in small letters. On a 1909 Edison Fireside I found the cursive E logo used in Edison's "Kinetophone" films of 1912-1913 and on the underside of the Diamond C reproducer weight. Mainspring trademarks are there, in many cases, but are not (I don't think) generally studied. Hopefully I am wrong and someone has documented them.

Maybe it would be good to drop in two new springs. Ron Sitko has excellent ones--strong and powerful, smooth-running, and very hard to break.

[Dave D]

Both springs should be the same. Some motors used a pear shaped hole on one end and bent end on the other, but I have never seen one mixed like you have. Looks like you need pear shaped hole on both ends if I look at your photos correctly.
Call Ron Sitko, he has what you need.
Dave D

[Dave D]

Two new springs makes a lot of sense, Putting a new spring with an old one is asking for trouble in a short time.
Dave D

[phonojim]

Victor used springs with pear-shaped holes in both ends until sometime in 1917 when the Burton motor was introduced. This motor used a specially bent center which would automatically contact the shaft along with a pear-shaped hole at the outer end. Later, the outer end was changed was changed so that it was bent over to engage a hook attached to the inside of the barrel. Your IX should have holes on both ends. What type of brake does your machine have? I had an early IX years ago that had that weird "scissor" brake that never worked quite right.

Ron Sitko: 518-371-849

Jim

[Curt A]

Are you a serious DIYer? If so, since neither spring is broken you could cut off the bent end on the one spring and make a pear shaped hole in it to match. You would need to heat the end of the spring to red hot with a torch a few inches in and then just let it cool. This will remove the temper from the end so you can cut it off and make your pear shaped hole by using two different size drill bits to drill the holes and connect them by cutting out the middle with a Dremel. You will end up with two good springs for now, which might need replacing in the future... Just an option, which is entirely up to you...

Or, you can buy two new springs from Ron...

[startgroove]

In agreement with Curt about choice of re-holing the spring, or replacement of the springs. If you choose to re-hole the spring, to get to the center of the spring is quite difficult, considering that it is a tight curl which allows very little room to get a drill bit to. I've used a metal punch on the center part of the springs instead, since the punch can get into tight spots easier. Here is a picture of one I got from Harbor Freight. Cheers, Russie